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Thread: Serious Question, Can Barbiturates/Phenobarbital aid with insommnia.

  1. #1

    Default Serious Question, Can Barbiturates/Phenobarbital aid with insommnia.

    Hi All

    A friend has suggested taking a break from my usual sleep aid and suggested the above in small doses.

    Does anybody have any advice, or had any experience of these meds?

    Anything would be useful

    Regards

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    What's your usual sleep aid?

    Pentobarb does help with insomnia, I would place it somewhere around or a bit stronger than Temazepam and Nitrazepam.

    Phenobarb I have no personal experience with but generally it is known to be is less sedating and longer acting than Pentobarb.

    It really depends on what you normally take to sleep. There is cross tolerance with benzos and benzos are a lot safer than Pentobarb.
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    Yes but it was a long time ago.

    They were Nembutal & Seconal.

    They really knock you out compared to Ambien imo.
    With Ambien, I could walk around the house & clean things
    do miscellaneous chores but with those barbiturates no way
    could I walk around!

    I am surprised one can still find these as I had thought they were discontinued
    along with Quaaludes.
    Last edited by Roz; 08-13-2017 at 08:10 PM.
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  5. Recently there was a discussion about Phenobarbital. I cannot include it in here form some reason; but it it under the sub-forum:

    General chat about online pharmacies

    And called this:

    Experience with Phenobarbital

    I don't think it would be wise to take. It is not like Ambien, Lunesta or any of the benzodiazepines. It produces a very different reaction. As if someone hit you over the head, stole from you, and you couldn't even care one bit and if you could care you would have a difficult time expresses it!
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  6. #5
    @Inspector Lewis,

    Phenobarbital can be used for insomnia, but it is more suitable as an anticonvulsant. A serious disadvantage is the long half life. Also, there is the theoretical potential for overdose, a real one when used with other GABAergic drugs, opiates and possibly other drugs as well.
    You don't want to become dependent on this drug, the long half life doesn't help with that.

    And if you drink a few beers two days after having taken a dose of pheno the beer may have a very different effect ! Use with great caution. Too bad the short acting barbiturates are almost unavailable.
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  7. #6
    Hi All, @Brax, @File Error 500, @Roz, @Lumo,

    After reading all your advice, and the 'Experience of phenobarbital' (FE500) I have decided that its not the med for me, I take too many other things that could cause a problem.

    My sincere gratitude for going to the trouble of responding.

    What's happened to everybody? Its been like a hermits address book in here recently?

    Kind Regards

    Lewis

    hermit.jpg
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    I'm too late to help much with my experience, but I'm glad you've decided not to use phenobarbital for insomnia. I was on it in the mid 90s for seizures, and ended up zombie-fied as we tried to find the correct dosage. As someone else noted above, it has a very long half-life, which makes finding the right dosage difficult, and it's very easy to go from "I don't feel anything" to "OMG, I'm stoned out of my gourd" in a matter of hours. And when it happened to me, I was flying from Chicago to Charlotte, with a layover in Newark. By the time I got to Newark, I could barely walk or talk - and asking for help was impossible. I still can't believe I made the connection. When I got off the plane in Charlotte, my parents freaked and took me directly to the hospital.

    The irony turned out to be, my seizures weren't epilepsy, they were PNES - psychogenic non-epileptic seizures, a conversion disorder. They were being triggered by massive amounts of stress. (Divorce turned out to be the cure.) So Phenobarbital really wasn't the correct med in the first place. Then again, neurologists really aren't the right doctors to prescribe divorce either.

    Good luck in your quest to find something to help with the insomnia. When I'm not taking Zopiclone or Zolpidem (like this month), I'm taking Phenergan. Next month it will be a combination of Melatonin and Benedryl. October will be either Zopiclone/Zolpidem again. Are any of these an option for you?

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    I took barbs for awhile years ago and one has to keep the dose low. They are so much different from benzos. I took phenobarb for a couple of months and I slept like the dead. But remember keep the dose low. The feeling I got from them was similar to fiorinal, which contains another type of barbiturate, and I can't remember the name of it.
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  10. #9
    To get a real effect out of a barbituates that are prescribed commonly now is near the LD50 / overdose , doseage.
    Barbs have gone out because when they got rid of the good Barbituates, we got stuck with the ones with the most side effects at higher doseages (basically it keeps people from abusing them , you'll die before you get high)

    Barbs are good for other things though. Like supressing seizures when quitting benzodiazepines. Im sure they have a mild sedative effect at low doseages but tolerance is also a factor if you might be using it for a while.
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  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ludwig1961 View Post
    I took barbs for awhile years ago and one has to keep the dose low. They are so much different from benzos. I took phenobarb for a couple of months and I slept like the dead. But remember keep the dose low. The feeling I got from them was similar to fiorinal, which contains another type of barbiturate, and I can't remember the name of it.
    fiorinal , contains Butalbital
    aka
    "Fioricet"

    Another bullshit drug concocted to make us all go crazy
    (though it definitely can be used for migraines and such. light sensitivity headaches..)

    It comes as Butalbital Alone,
    2) With Tylenol or Aspirin, (and butalbital)
    3 ) Or with tylenol or aspirin + codeine. (and butalbital)
    Last edited by infamousryan; 09-01-2017 at 01:12 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector Lewis View Post
    Hi All, @Brax, @File Error 500, @Roz, @Lumo,

    After reading all your advice, and the 'Experience of phenobarbital' (FE500) I have decided that its not the med for me, I take too many other things that could cause a problem.

    My sincere gratitude for going to the trouble of responding.

    What's happened to everybody? Its been like a hermits address book in here recently?

    Kind Regards

    Lewis

    hermit.jpg


    Hi! Sorry OT from your post. But had to reply to your hermit quote! Lol, I agree! Thought it was just me!

    I've been trying to keep posting A lot, to help keep this place alive! I have my core group of 5-6 people that reply or like/helpful.
    Everyone else is just, idk?

    I enjoy pr for the friends. I click like or help for everyone. No discrimination if that's what it is? Or not? Don't know but wish others would post instead of just check in. I've been replying to myself for weeks! . Kind of boring. As you can see my ID is on Many of thread titles, last to reply.

    But I'll keep trying! I'm not a quitter & hope everyone's ok & will start posting more often soon. I almost wanted to start a thread till I came across your post bc I wasn't sure if it was just me...

    My insomniac self keeps me up most of the night. Couple hours here & there. But I still post before work, around lunch, after, evenings & mid of night. Always on line no matter where I am. Plus I work mostly "online" & am able to be here. I know not everyone else is able to during work hours.

    So yeah I'm still here! I hope to see more activity soon
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  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Rylee View Post
    Hi! Sorry OT from your post. But had to reply to your hermit quote! Lol, I agree! Thought it was just me!

    I've been trying to keep posting A lot, to help keep this place alive! I have my core group of 5-6 people that reply or like/helpful.
    Everyone else is just, idk?

    I enjoy pr for the friends. I click like or help for everyone. No discrimination if that's what it is? Or not? Don't know but wish others would post instead of just check in. I've been replying to myself for weeks! . Kind of boring. As you can see my ID is on Many of thread titles, last to reply.

    But I'll keep trying! I'm not a quitter & hope everyone's ok & will start posting more often soon. I almost wanted to start a thread till I came across your post bc I wasn't sure if it was just me...

    My insomniac self keeps me up most of the night. Couple hours here & there. But I still post before work, around lunch, after, evenings & mid of night. Always on line no matter where I am. Plus I work mostly "online" & am able to be here. I know not everyone else is able to during work hours.

    So yeah I'm still here! I hope to see more activity soon
    @Rylee,

    We took a big knock back when the authorities seized/suspended the website, unfortunately I don't think a majority had taken note of the twitter information on how to get back on line, and of course many will have been shaken by that LE warning.

    I'm sure it will slowly return to what it was, all we can do is keep posting and hope new and old members become more active.

    Personally I'm not as active as I could be, but I'm the quiet and shy type, but I am coming out of my shell lol

    Kind Regards

    Lewis
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    Quote Originally Posted by infamousryan View Post
    fiorinal , contains Butalbital
    aka
    "Fioricet"

    Another bullshit drug concocted to make us all go crazy
    (though it definitely can be used for migraines and such. light sensitivity headaches..)

    It comes as Butalbital Alone,
    2) With Tylenol or Aspirin, (and butalbital)
    3 ) Or with tylenol or aspirin + codeine. (and butalbital)
    Fioricet has been my miracle drug for migraines! I do get a bit "high" off of them but they completely wipe out migraines AND anxiety. It makes me almost wish to try a real barb just for anxiety and sleep but yeah, don't wanna o/d accidentally.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rylee View Post
    Hi! Sorry OT from your post. But had to reply to your hermit quote! Lol, I agree! Thought it was just me!

    I've been trying to keep posting A lot, to help keep this place alive! I have my core group of 5-6 people that reply or like/helpful.
    Everyone else is just, idk?

    I enjoy pr for the friends. I click like or help for everyone. No discrimination if that's what it is? Or not? Don't know but wish others would post instead of just check in. I've been replying to myself for weeks! . Kind of boring. As you can see my ID is on Many of thread titles, last to reply.

    But I'll keep trying! I'm not a quitter & hope everyone's ok & will start posting more often soon. I almost wanted to start a thread till I came across your post bc I wasn't sure if it was just me...

    My insomniac self keeps me up most of the night. Couple hours here & there. But I still post before work, around lunch, after, evenings & mid of night. Always on line no matter where I am. Plus I work mostly "online" & am able to be here. I know not everyone else is able to during work hours.

    So yeah I'm still here! I hope to see more activity soon
    You goof ball! You can always write or PM me. I admit I've been super busy but I would love to talk to you more
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    Hi Lewis, I'm glad to hear you're coming out of your shell

    I know people get nervous or can't find this place again from Twitter. Btw if anyone reading it's pharmreviewer With the logo @ Twitter.
    Or H20...you can find him by his Avatar if you search. A few of us follow each other or him. He's a different ID but don't know if he cares if I post his ID, I'll err on side of caution.

    I understand the quiet & shy type. Usually huge animal lovers

    I hope more start coming back & posting, even OT. I was slow coming back a few years ago but not this time. Don't care! I miss my friends!

    Sorry hijacked this thread

    Back on Topic. @Blue Flowers I've never had fioricet rx for my migraines. Sure pcp won't rx them to me even having them dx in my MR since about age 13. I get 2 kinds. The "normal" migraines & what I call my neck migraines. They radiate from my ruptured disc in my neck. Even with MRIs proving them. I'll have to ask tho, nothing has ever worked that I've tried. Id give all the $ in the world to stop mine. Tried many but nothing's helped.

    Sorry still OT for barbiturates/sleeping medicine. Just be Careful with powerful meds if you get them prescribed.





    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector Lewis View Post
    @Rylee,

    We took a big knock back when the authorities seized/suspended the website, unfortunately I don't think a majority had taken note of the twitter information on how to get back on line, and of course many will have been shaken by that LE warning.

    I'm sure it will slowly return to what it was, all we can do is keep posting and hope new and old members become more active.

    Personally I'm not as active as I could be, but I'm the quiet and shy type, but I am coming out of my shell lol

    Kind Regards

    Lewis
    Last edited by Rylee; 09-03-2017 at 11:35 PM. Reason: Its auto corrects fault!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rylee View Post
    Hi Lewis, I'm glad to hear you're coming out of your shell

    I know people get nervous or can't find this place again from Twitter. Btw if anyone reading it's pharmreviewer With the logo @ Twitter.
    Or H20...you can find him by his Avatar if you search. A few of us follow each other or him. He's a different ID but don't know if he cares if I post his ID, I'll err on side of caution.

    I understand the quiet & shy type. Usually huge animal lovers

    I hope more start coming back & posting, even OT. I was slow coming back a few years ago but not this time. Don't care! I miss my friends!

    Sorry hijacked this thread

    Back on Topic. @Blue Flowers I've never had fioricet rx for my migraines. Sure pcp won't rx them to me even having them dx in my MR since about age 13. I get 2 kinds. The "normal" migraines & what I call my neck migraines. They radiate from my ruptured disc in my neck. Even with MRIs proving them. I'll have to ask tho, nothing has ever worked that I've tried. Id give all the $ in the world to stop mine. Tried many but nothing's helped.

    Sorry still OT for barbiturates/sleeping medicine. Just be Careful with powerful meds if you get them prescribed.
    Oh my gosh! You should ask your PCP, they are not currently scheduled, even though there is a small amount of Barb in them. Unless you get Fiorinal (with Codeine) which I've found is not any more helpful. I asked a pharmacist why they aren't scheduled and they said that the Tylenol O/D would kill ya long before the barb would bc it's such a small amount. Strange explaination...yes! My doc has been giving me smaller and smaller doses (he's uber conservative) and I actually haven't asked for any for quite some time. After getting a Daith piercing, my migraines have lessened in frequency and duration. So....a daith piercing is another option you could try. The day I got it, I went in with a major migraine, as soon as the painful needle went through my ear....migraine completely gone like magic! I'm planning on getting the other side done to see if that helps anymore. Along with helping pain, I think Daith piercings are super cute, it's not seen all that easy unless someone stares at your ear and my little piercing has pretty crystals on it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Flowers View Post
    Oh my gosh! You should ask your PCP, they are not currently scheduled, even though there is a small amount of Barb in them. Unless you get Fiorinal (with Codeine) which I've found is not any more helpful. I asked a pharmacist why they aren't scheduled and they said that the Tylenol O/D would kill ya long before the barb would bc it's such a small amount. Strange explaination...yes! My doc has been giving me smaller and smaller doses (he's uber conservative) and I actually haven't asked for any for quite some time. After getting a Daith piercing, my migraines have lessened in frequency and duration. So....a daith piercing is another option you could try. The day I got it, I went in with a major migraine, as soon as the painful needle went through my ear....migraine completely gone like magic! I'm planning on getting the other side done to see if that helps anymore. Along with helping pain, I think Daith piercings are super cute, it's not seen all that easy unless someone stares at your ear and my little piercing has pretty crystals on it
    Hi! Omg Great info on the Daith piercing! TY!

    It might work for my "normal" migraines and Florinal, with or without codeine. Would be a miracle drug for me!

    My problem is I can't even take the medicine (can't think of name) that helps for nausea bc I'll throw that up

    Heck I throw up after there's nothing left but bile in stomach, funny but NOT! Migraines are horrible at best!
    I'm very interested in the Daith piercing. If it could help lessen in any way I'd try it. Esp since I NEED something but not in my stomach to help!!! All I want is them to go away & WANT anything but can't stomach anything so I've given up.

    My normal migraines are hereditary from my dad. We're the only ones that get them. The ruptured disc type migraines aren't but I call them migraines but not "true migraines" or they are a different kind that turn into true migraines. Just VERY bad. Either way I get both, GREAT lol. Still end up Down & out with either & can last up to 2 days to get through all the phases .

    All I know is they both start with thinking, are the lights brighter than usual, then squiggly lines, oh no...
    Thanks for the super info! I'm asking next dr appt! You're the best!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rylee View Post
    Hi! Omg Great info on the Daith piercing! TY!

    It might work for my "normal" migraines and Florinal, with or without codeine. Would be a miracle drug for me!

    My problem is I can't even take the medicine (can't think of name) that helps for nausea bc I'll throw that up

    Heck I throw up after there's nothing left but bile in stomach, funny but NOT! Migraines are horrible at best!
    I'm very interested in the Daith piercing. If it could help lessen in any way I'd try it. Esp since I NEED something but not in my stomach to help!!! All I want is them to go away & WANT anything but can't stomach anything so I've given up.

    My normal migraines are hereditary from my dad. We're the only ones that get them. The ruptured disc type migraines aren't but I call them migraines but not "true migraines" or they are a different kind that turn into true migraines. Just VERY bad. Either way I get both, GREAT lol. Still end up Down & out with either & can last up to 2 days to get through all the phases .

    All I know is they both start with thinking, are the lights brighter than usual, then squiggly lines, oh no...
    Thanks for the super info! I'm asking next dr appt! You're the best!
    I oh so know you're quandary with anti-emetics! Zofran used to stop the puking....now it just makes it worse. So many of the other anti-nausea drugs have awful to down right scary side effects aka delirium, coma.....
    I really hope you try a daith and it helps you as much as it has helped me. Not to say I DON't get them anymore but it has been VERY helpful May be a myth or placebo but I believe in it very much after getting one.
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    There are accupuncture points that help with nausea. You don't have to use a needle, you can massage the places with your fingers. Look up the points on the net and try it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gullible View Post
    There are accupuncture points that help with nausea. You don't have to use a needle, you can massage the places with your fingers. Look up the points on the net and try it.
    Tried all the pressure points, nothing works very well with migraine and furious puking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Flowers View Post
    Tried all the pressure points, nothing works very well with migraine and furious puking
    I'm so sorry to hear that. There are lots of remedies out there, doctors won't tell you about them, they just peddle pharmaceuticals and do some cutting. I won't recommend any though I've heard of a few things. Everyone is different and what cures my headache might not make a dent in yours. Headache I mean not a dent in your head, lol

    I'm sure you've tried aspirin plus acetaminophen? That plus some caffeine perhaps? You don't want to overdo any of those ingredients but together they may have synergy. There are some herbs too that are said to help. Do a search and follow leads. I always look for user feedback that seems to be honest, I pay little attention to testimonials on a vendors page. If amazon sells it they may have a bunch of user reviews.
    Helpful Blue Flowers Rated helpful

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