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Thread: Impact of harsh laws on chronic pain patients...interesting article

  1. #21
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/09/o...gtype=Homepage

    Here's another piece on this topic, this one in the op-ed section of Saturday's New York Times. That it's in the New York Times actually matters, because more people read the NYT than do any other single newspaper in the United States. The NYT has a far reach and articles/op-eds that make their way into this paper carry some weight. The pendulum cannot get back to the middle soon enough, but maybe it's beginning its swing.
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  3. Great article @Ellyn! It’s long been known that when patients are denied their needed medications they frequently turn to heroin. It’s much cheaper on the streets than schedule 2 pks. Then their addiction begins. I will forever be a proponent of allowing physicians who actually examine the patient to use their judgement on what should be prescribed. Not the insurance companies, not the pharmacies and certainly not higher ups in medical organizations who frequently have business degrees and no formal medical training.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qtrgirl View Post
    Great article @Ellyn! It’s long been known that when patients are denied their needed medications they frequently turn to heroin. It’s much cheaper on the streets than schedule 2 pks. Then their addiction begins. I will forever be a proponent of allowing physicians who actually examine the patient to use their judgement on what should be prescribed. Not the insurance companies, not the pharmacies and certainly not higher ups in medical organizations who frequently have business degrees and no formal medical training.
    Y'know, one of the main reasons I tune in to PR is to reassure myself that I'm not completely nuts, that there are at least a few people who share my opinion: that adults and their doctors are the individuals who ought to be making healthcare decisions for those same said adults, not the DEA or insurance companies or even hospital admin (who, as @Qtrgirl points out, are more likely to have MBAs than MDs).

    I really don't understand why we are in the minority, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qtrgirl View Post
    What’s been really interesting to me lately is the severe focus of solely opiates. For many years I had a small monthly rx for both Percocet and tramadol. The tramadol I take regularly and the Percocet only PRN. For years no issues. I have a wonderful pcp who truly cares about his patients and I’ve stayed with him. I’m young but have a lot of health problems and he’s familiar with them. Last year the large medical corporation where he practices started requiring him to make his patients come every 3 months if they were on a scheduled narcotic. Not long after that it requires periodic drug testing. All of which I complied with. Now under further pressure he has to further limit RXs and we had to stop the Percocet rx. I’m understanding, it’s not really his fault and he was very apologietic. When I filled my last RX of tramadol at my pharmacy the new insurance company is forcing a 1 week supply at a time for the initial rx and then I have to go back in another week to pick up the remaining 3 weeks! The kicker for me is that I also have a sleep disorder that my pcp treats with adderall. No problem with me taking that schedule 2 by either the insurance or the medical corporation. Sigh. What good is scheduling medications on the lower end if you’re going to treat them worse than a schedule 2. The pharmacy was just as annoyed about having to break up the RX
    @Qtrgirl... that is such a shame that you had a doctor and a plan that was working for you yet someone unfamiliar with your medical situation or you personally decides that they know best. Thing is that if your state hasn't adopted these restrictions of visits every 3 months plus urine tests, then either the medical practice or insurance will step in and do it.

    Most are under this "goal" (who knows where it came from) that they need to reduce the number of prescriptions by a certain percentage. Of course an easy way to get a quick numbers boost is to go after chronic pain patients who have recurring prescriptions. Just a numbers game to them.

  6. Since I work in the medical field I deal with insurance companies and everything else denying the medications we prescribe. I frequently deal with two eye drops that work extremely well but are expensive. Last week the insurance company denied our prior authorization on one patient because they said a patient should have been on a steroid first. Much more risks with using the steroid than what we prescribed but insurance insists that patient used steroids first simply because it’s cheaper. So now I have to appeal this and deal with more delays for my patient. It’s ridiculous and frustrating that we sometimes can’t do what is truly the best for the patient because if it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Qtrgirl View Post
    Great article @Ellyn! It’s long been known that when patients are denied their needed medications they frequently turn to heroin. It’s much cheaper on the streets than schedule 2 pks. Then their addiction begins. I will forever be a proponent of allowing physicians who actually examine the patient to use their judgement on what should be prescribed. Not the insurance companies, not the pharmacies and certainly not higher ups in medical organizations who frequently have business degrees and no formal medical training.
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    I can’t believe that my PCP has stopped prescribing my weak pain med.She is even sending me to a pain clinic. I have only heard bad experiences with them. Why after all this time? I have issues that make it normal for me to get these. She said it has become to much of a hassle for her. Oh! She is very sorry! But I guess she is not as caring as I thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueroan17 View Post
    Y'know, one of the main reasons I tune in to PR is to reassure myself that I'm not completely nuts, that there are at least a few people who share my opinion: that adults and their doctors are the individuals who ought to be making healthcare decisions for those same said adults, not the DEA or insurance companies or even hospital admin (who, as @Qtrgirl points out, are more likely to have MBAs than MDs).

    I really don't understand why we are in the minority, though.
    I agree. Insurance companies, the DEA and the FDA are all practicing medicine without a license.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qtrgirl View Post
    Since I work in the medical field I deal with insurance companies and everything else denying the medications we prescribe. I frequently deal with two eye drops that work extremely well but are expensive. Last week the insurance company denied our prior authorization on one patient because they said a patient should have been on a steroid first. Much more risks with using the steroid than what we prescribed but insurance insists that patient used steroids first simply because it’s cheaper. So now I have to appeal this and deal with more delays for my patient. It’s ridiculous and frustrating that we sometimes can’t do what is truly the best for the patient because if it.
    It's crazy that we keep continuing this awful health system. It involves such incredible amounts of wasted time and yet so many folks oppose a single-payer system because they think government will come between you and your doctor. That's laughable, because not only is it ALREADY there in many ways including the "opioid crizuz" but the insurance companies are FAR more likely to come between you and your doctor since their SOLE motivation is GREED. At least the government has to put on a "face" that its caring about its citizens.

    I tells ya, I have lost a lot of faith in my country. I used to think we were so wise in so many ways, but lately we look (and behave) like total fools with only money as our god...
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    The current situation that we all are experiencing is so very unfair. It's depressing as hell and after reading the posts in this thread I think of George Harrison's song "Isn't it a Pity". That's sort of funny, but not really. I really have to appreciate all of you that contribute thoughts and news articles because even though I'm not getting the pain meds I really need, I get a feeling of belonging and important info that guides me to creative solutions. Not so long ago I was watching the news and they were showing a protest at the state capitol regarding pain patients having trouble getting their meds, just the thing that we can all relate to. The sad thing about it all is there were only about 10 people there. It was pathetic. How can we have a decent protest when we all feel like crap and don't have the good health we need to even get there. Have I taken my anti depressant today? Maybe I should take two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NB12345 View Post
    And they don't even mention cigarettes....highly addictive.....probably kills more people then any other drug. But it's legal. And it's a money makes.
    Imo
    @NB12345 "The Big H & Coke Kill 5,000 to 10,000 American's per year" (H e r 0 I n & C0 caIne)
    "Alcohol kills 100,000 American's per year"
    "Tobacco kills 420,000 American's per year" !!!

    Source: Center for Disease Control (ATL GA USA)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whisperjet727 View Post
    @NB12345 "The Big H & Coke Kill 5,000 to 10,000 American's per year" (H e r 0 I n & C0 caIne)
    "Alcohol kills 100,000 American's per year"
    "Tobacco kills 420,000 American's per year" !!!

    Source: Center for Disease Control (ATL GA USA)
    Yeah, but those make WAY too much money for them to ever get banned. It's so crazy and arbitrary. It really depends on popularity. So I say, make opiate use as popular as possible... (I think they're just finding that out tho...)
    The cause of all suffering is attachment...

  13. Quote Originally Posted by jakemoe View Post
    The current situation that we all are experiencing is so very unfair. It's depressing as hell and after reading the posts in this thread I think of George Harrison's song "Isn't it a Pity". That's sort of funny, but not really. I really have to appreciate all of you that contribute thoughts and news articles because even though I'm not getting the pain meds I really need, I get a feeling of belonging and important info that guides me to creative solutions. Not so long ago I was watching the news and they were showing a protest at the state capitol regarding pain patients having trouble getting their meds, just the thing that we can all relate to. The sad thing about it all is there were only about 10 people there. It was pathetic. How can we have a decent protest when we all feel like crap and don't have the good health we need to even get there. Have I taken my anti depressant today? Maybe I should take two.
    And this is exactly what they are counting on! We're the low hanging fruit in all this and many are in too much pain or too sick with w/d's to
    fight back! The whole thing makes me so angry I could cuss a blue streak and never stop!
    Nolite te bastardes carborundorum, b_tches!

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    Here is another link to some of the current pressures facing people in chronic pain.
    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...s-pain-1106969
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    Anyone think they may "86" fentanyl patches at least for anyone that is not a cancer patient? It worries me. I live in pain but it helps and I prefer it to popping pills all day though I have those too, legally.
    I just worry about the legal fentanyl scripted suffering folks vs. the street cut heroin with the fentanyl powder.
    Hope I have not posted this concern already on another thread but I cannot help but overthink the possibility along with some of the folks at the top of the food chain that have no personal involvement or understanding about the implications.
    Where's the darn prescription Ketamine for pain already? Not eskatiime nose spray for depression. Not the $500+++ IV treatment centers that rip u off and are mostly for depression and still just are not long lasting enough.

    RANT DONE. lol sorry!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakemoe View Post
    The current situation that we all are experiencing is so very unfair. It's depressing as hell and after reading the posts in this thread I think of George Harrison's song "Isn't it a Pity". That's sort of funny, but not really. I really have to appreciate all of you that contribute thoughts and news articles because even though I'm not getting the pain meds I really need, I get a feeling of belonging and important info that guides me to creative solutions. Not so long ago I was watching the news and they were showing a protest at the state capitol regarding pain patients having trouble getting their meds, just the thing that we can all relate to. The sad thing about it all is there were only about 10 people there. It was pathetic. How can we have a decent protest when we all feel like crap and don't have the good health we need to even get there. Have I taken my anti depressant today? Maybe I should take two.
    @jakemoe...that's a good part of the problem - people in pain can't marked around the streets or stand all day waiting to be heard but also there's still that stigma of saying you need pain medication. I know people with cancer whose family members are upset because they're on morphine & "might get addicted"... yes, these are people who are terminal. So you can understand how hard it is to come out when "you're not dying"

    I think this is why finding and supporting advocacy groups is so important. I'm going to have to start doing some research and posting on those who speak for us.
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    Just read this "comment" in an older article about Sessions cracking down on MD's for prescribing opiates...

    William Mangino II MD

    Don't blame Jeff Sessions, Prosecutor Cook, or The DEA. They believe they are doing the right thing...even if it is misdirected...they won't stop until the medical profession lays down the law.

    Laying down the law will only occur when the millions of back and neck pain patients in this country refuse all other forms of diagnostic procedures, injections, pain pumps, physical therapy, spinal fusions, selective nerve root blocks, trigger point injections, discectomy, MRI, CT Scan, Discograms, myelograms and x-rays; and any other pain-related treatments their doctors recommend.

    After you do this...the medical profession...probably within 18-36 months of "financial shutdown" [ all pain management training programs would be economically forced to shut down for lack of third party funding ] The AMA will then put pressure on Congress to re-instate pre-operative guarantee for opioid prescribing as part of the operative or procedure consent form...in case their "procedures" don't work; and the world will be a better place.

    It's in your collective power to do this...so stop complaining about something which will be very easy to fix when every phony pain doctor who makes a living doing worthless series of injections realizes he has to take his kids out of private school while you writhe in pain.

    Print this letter and organize yourselves through national pain committees to carry out this goal.

    Stop blaming DEA. They have every right to investigate. Blame The AMA...the real enemy for abrogating their responsibility to alleviate suffering.

    William Mangino II MD


    I definitely don't agree with his assessment about the DEA et al, but I certainly DO agree that the AMA is allowing doctors to "push" all this stuff just to make money and much of it doesn't work worth a damn...
    Last edited by jaders; 6 Days Ago at 06:28 PM.
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  18. @jaders, when i was a kid doctors indeed saw themselves as gods and would never have allowed these agencies to tell them how to practice medicine. i have refused to spend any more money supporting their shot programs and other nonsense. once they have no patients, doctors will have to reassess their pain approach. we need to stop supporting steroid shot mills with their pt in the next office. they need to stop profiting off the ridiculous modalities they have invented. if they continue to regard chronic pain patients as addicts, they don't deserve to have patients.
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    I've had 2 drug tests in the last 4 months. I was taken off pain meds for over a year and half. When I was sent to a specialist for my back, she put me back on them. I believe it was my daughter speaking up for me that made it happen. I have felt better ever since. If I hadn't had an advocate with me, I don't think she would have prescribed them.
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  20. #39
    Interesting article in the UK Daily Mail about a man in Minnesota, Thomas Houck, who was just convicted of manslaughter for helping his wife commit suicide. According to the article this lady suffered from chronic pain and left a handwritten suicide note stating that she could no longer live with the pain. Her former husband, with whom she remained on good terms, said that due to the current opioid hysteria (he called it the opioid crisis, but we know it's really one of our nation's periodic episodes of institutionalized hysteria) this woman's doctors would not prescribe proper pain medication for her. So now she's dead of suicide with her husband's help, and now he's convicted of manslaughter, and the band plays on. Yes, people in chronic pain really DO kill themselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whisperjet727 View Post
    @NB12345 "The Big H & Coke Kill 5,000 to 10,000 American's per year" (H e r 0 I n & C0 caIne)
    "Alcohol kills 100,000 American's per year"
    "Tobacco kills 420,000 American's per year" !!!

    Source: Center for Disease Control (ATL GA USA)
    Hi Whisperjet Alcohol is killing 100,000 Americans per year, do you know if that figure includes car accident deaths caused by DUIs?
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  22. Impact of harsh laws on chronic pain patients...interesting article
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