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Thread: Finally! Slow taper guidelines come out!!!!!

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    Default Finally! Slow taper guidelines come out!!!!!

    I guess it’s good that these guidelines finally came out and are in JAMA but I’d say it’s a little too late for most people who’ve already been harmed by the stupid CDC recommendations.

    Also this sentence alone makes me slow burn:

    Federal health officials are once again urging doctors not to rapidly decrease or abruptly stop prescribing opioid medication to chronic pain patients”.

    So they’re saying to not rapidly decrease or abruptly stop prescribing for chronic pain patients but they’re NOT saying to just let them be! So no alternative other than still saying to take people off effective pain control - just do it slower. The rest of the article is informative and makes you wonder why no one listened to pain advocates.

    https://www.painnewsnetwork.org/stor...-opioid-tapers

  2. #2
    This is great news for those on prescribed meds. Finally, some common sense. If you just stop prescribing, people will find other means thus heroin and fentanyl.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethom View Post
    This is great news for those on prescribed meds. Finally, some common sense. If you just stop prescribing, people will find other means thus heroin and fentanyl.
    @ethom...I agree except so many doctors have already decided that it’s not worth dealing with prescribing these meds. Hopefully it will help some people who would otherwise have been abruptly cut off.

    Also what I’d rather see is them say that they shouldn’t even taper a pain patient who’s been on their meds without problem. If someone has found relief, does not have a history of “losing” their meds, is functioning better without pain, then why do they need any taper - slow or not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bawston View Post
    @ethom...I agree except so many doctors have already decided that it’s not worth dealing with prescribing these meds. Hopefully it will help some people who would otherwise have been abruptly cut off.

    Also what I’d rather see is them say that they shouldn’t even taper a pain patient who’s been on their meds without problem. If someone has found relief, does not have a history of “losing” their meds, is functioning better without pain, then why do they need any taper - slow or not?
    I COMPLETELY agree. That little talk about "getting the patient on board" makes me see red. Like they're going to somehow convince you that what works will no longer work. This demonization of pain medication that actually enhance the quality of so many lives - and now it's become bad for EVERYONE. I just keep saying, over and over, it's insanity. They certainly haven't stopped using them in hospitals, as a good friend of mine was in for several days. But they HAVE taken away the little pain measuring signs that were used when they actually felt pain was a legitimate problem for healing...
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  5. all it took was some well-publicized suicides for them to admit the destruction caused by cutting people off needed medications. the guidelines are indeed too late, for people have already suffered. now they're just fighting the backlash. "oh yeah, we forgot to mention the patients who don't abuse their meds." doctors have moved on to raking in the bucks with steroids shots. too little and too late.
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    Wonder how people with root canals from the dentist deal with the pain just a bottle of tequila and aspirin i guess?
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    @Bawston
    Thank you for posting this. Very helpful info to have on hand. If the big shots in DC had their way, they would ban everything, simply by shifting it to Sched 1. I’m only guessing, but I am pretty sure they have thought about it. The turmoil that would cause is crazy, but they only care about power. I do know they have the best health insurance money could buy, but they get that free. As I have mentioned, they have on staff doctors and a FULLY stocked pharmacy. I wonder how long it would take for them to get any pain relief. Maybe 10 minute.

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    As those of us on here have known all along, bureaucrats created this mess because they had to appear to be doing “something” to “fix” the problem. The loudest voices in the room were parents and relatives of people who had overdosed. I think we all had a gut feeling that this didn’t seem to be a problem for people who were just getting pain relief. Well, as it turns out, there is a VERY definitive study that busts the myth that people were dying from their prescriptions. Question is why are we not seeing THIS in big headlines? Almost NONE of the OD victims had an active prescription.

    https://www.painnewsnetwork.org/stor...on-for-opioids
    Last edited by Bawston; 11-03-2019 at 02:45 PM.
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  9. My doctor will only give me 15 pain pills a month. I guess that’s better than nothing! Anyway, I’m glad that they have better guidelines than just cutting people off

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bawston View Post
    As those of us on here have known all along, bureaucrats created this mess because they had to appear to be doing “something” to “fix” the problem. The loudest voices in the room were parents and relatives of people who had overdosed. I think we all had a gut feeling that this didn’t seem to be a problem for people who were just getting pain relief. Well, as it turns out, there is a VERY definitive study that busts the myth that people were dying from their prescriptions. Question is why are we not seeing THIS in big headlines? Almost NONE of the OD victims had an active prescription.

    https://www.painnewsnetwork.org/stor...on-for-opioids
    I think we aren't seeing it in the headlines because the media and others don't think our predicament is all that critical. I believe we don't have the respect we need to have in order for major change or news worthiness. We have been put in the same classification as the "poor and disabled in this country. They have lost a great deal of respect in the last 3 or 4 years with massive funding cuts, and even ridicule from the president. They think we are gimpy, cripples, whiny, old & wrinkled, in other words, easy to ignore. I certainly don't feel that way and I don't think most of us do, but there is this unfair stigma that goes along with chronic pain, among other things. I'm hoping we get a new boss in the white house and things get better.
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    F**k the DEA

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    @jakemoe...I think you’re right about the perception of chronic pain patients. My niece is a physical therapist and was talking about changing the practice she’s with because she wants to work with people who have “real” problems and too many of her patients “just” have fibromyalgia “and stuff like that”...

    As she rolled her eyes. She did turn beet red when I said, “did you know that I’ve been dealing with fibromyalgia for over 20 years and that physical therapists typically have made my condition worse?”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bawston View Post
    @jakemoe...I think you’re right about the perception of chronic pain patients. My niece is a physical therapist and was talking about changing the practice she’s with because she wants to work with people who have “real” problems and too many of her patients “just” have fibromyalgia “and stuff like that”...

    As she rolled her eyes. She did turn beet red when I said, “did you know that I’ve been dealing with fibromyalgia for over 20 years and that physical therapists typically have made my condition worse?”
    Damn!! I hope she DOES change professions since being in a profession that requires empathy doesn’t sound suitable for her...
    The cause of all suffering is attachment...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaders View Post
    Damn!! I hope she DOES change professions since being in a profession that requires empathy doesn’t sound suitable for her...
    @jaders...
    Let’s just say that this is a gal who doesn’t give you the warm fuzzies. Her personality is one that would send me looking for a new practitioner if I didn’t know her. Huh...no, even though I DO know her!
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    Not this has to be said, because we all know it. We are all lumped in with drug seeking people that recreationally use meds. Even my pain management doctor, who is one if the nicest doctors I ever had, has me on a slow taper. To make this worse, I don’t think a change in government will help. Sorry to be so pessimistic, but both sides of the aisle are fully onboard with the “crisis.” Of course they will never admit that they not only caused it, but are making it worse. The few politicians that are truly invested in stopping this crap, are marginalized as “totally radical,” by the media. The only way this ever gets better is when the entire lot of politicians have to get the same treatment as we do, but that will never happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RunRunRiver View Post
    My doctor will only give me 15 pain pills a month. I guess that’s better than nothing! Anyway, I’m glad that they have better guidelines than just cutting people off
    I’m sorry you’re in that predicament. Maybe it’s time to look at getting in with a different doctor?
    GD, makes me realize how lucky I’ve been up to this point. I have great report with my pain management Dr. for the last 7 years.
    And through the years as the pain increased, and tolerance has gone up, not once has he ever NOT given me a full refill.
    He literally asks me at every appointment “what do you need for this month?” Told him last time I feel guilty or sheepish about asking for refills on my pain meds. He looked right at me and said,, ‘don’t ever feel bad about asking for medication to improve your daily life.’ Just kinda blows me away when I think about it.
    I know I’m very fortunate to have a Doc that goes to such lengths to make sure I’m getting the pain relief I need. It didn’t use to be that way in the very beginning, when the back pain and nerve pain in my legs started 18 or so years ago.
    Went through a lot of docs that didn’t either believe me, or weren’t willing to give me the meds to deal with the pain. Took almost 15 years before I was correctly diagnosed with AS.
    Thus my handle on this forum, a bad taste was left in my mouth so to speak, about the rouge doctors that blew me off as some drug seeking junkie.
    There are A LOT of them out there that seriously lack the empathy and understanding of what pain does to a person. I had some very dark periods in my life where I just shut down. Stayed in bed writhing in pain. Damn, I wouldn’t talk to my boys or wife for days on end. A deep black hole of depression, that I still deal with. And my wife has been so understanding and my biggest advocate to get relief.
    So after all that rambling, I’m saying I hope @RunRunRiver that you get adequate pain meds to deal with your chronic pain very soon. Best of luck.

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    @Doc Rogue... I wish we could all find a doctor as compassionate and patient oriented as your doctor is. The problem for many of us is the state laws are so restrictive that it’s almost impossible to find a doctor willing to work with you. Almost all doctors in my half of the state are connected via a patient database so if I were to go to multiple doctors trying to find relief, it would be noted. I’d bet by the time I got to doctor #3 I wouldn’t even be able to get an appointment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bawston View Post
    @Doc Rogue... I wish we could all find a doctor as compassionate and patient oriented as your doctor is. The problem for many of us is the state laws are so restrictive that it’s almost impossible to find a doctor willing to work with you. Almost all doctors in my half of the state are connected via a patient database so if I were to go to multiple doctors trying to find relief, it would be noted. I’d bet by the time I got to doctor #3 I wouldn’t even be able to get an appointment.
    Really? Now you’re punished just trying to find a doc you’re comparable with? I’m sorry that’s the case. I think that goes too far and just needlessly punishes the patient even more.
    I don’t know if it’s just my doc, or there are others like him in this state. I just know I step very carefully as to not disrupt the relationship I’ve built up with them over the years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Rogue View Post
    Really? Now you’re punished just trying to find a doc you’re comparable with? I’m sorry that’s the case. I think that goes too far and just needlessly punishes the patient even more.
    I don’t know if it’s just my doc, or there are others like him in this state. I just know I step very carefully as to not disrupt the relationship I’ve built up with them over the years.
    I hate to say it and maybe I’m wrong but I do believe there is a bias against women, especially when it comes to controlled substances. I actually think it’s been studied and proven that doctors in general, whether male or female, tend to see women as more likely to become addicts or “hypochondriacs,” but seem to give men the benefit of the doubt more. Not to say it’s black and white but I generally agree with the studies that this bias exists. Wondering if other folks feel the same?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaders View Post
    I hate to say it and maybe I’m wrong but I do believe there is a bias against women, especially when it comes to controlled substances. I actually think it’s been studied and proven that doctors in general, whether male or female, tend to see women as more likely to become addicts or “hypochondriacs,” but seem to give men the benefit of the doubt more. Not to say it’s black and white but I generally agree with the studies that this bias exists. Wondering if other folks feel the same?
    I don’t know if that’s across the board either, but on a small scale I tend to agree with you just in speaking with female co-workers and a relative who deal with chronic pain. It shouldn’t be that way, if this is more common. I would suspect that it’s maybe an unconscious decision.
    I will go further in also stating that the women doctors I went to were some of the harshest towards me. I don’t know what that truly says, just my experience.
    And I don’t want to make any misconceptions. My doc is not operating a pill mill. He’d cut me off in an instant if I were to mess up. I’m truthful in my responses to him, and if asked a pointed question, I tell it like it is. But not asking for early refills, all the stuff that can get you into trouble with your doc, I do my best to avoid.
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    @Doc Rogue...I’m very careful with what I say to all of my doctors because although I theoretically have access to all of my info in this database, I do not have access to the section of doctor’s ‘notes’. Those would be the notes of a doctors impressions of you as well as any comments you might make about your feelings or satisfaction with other doctors.

    For example, the last doctor I went to for almost a year of spinal injections was somewhat angry and abrupt when the shots didn’t have much effect on my back and neck pain and I asked if I should see a surgeon. He slammed the table and shouted...”fine! You want a surgeon I’ll send you to a surgeon!” All I asked was ...”since this didn’t help what would be my next step? Should I see a surgeon?” I really didn’t know but the guy flipped out for whatever reason. I mentioned this to my primary and she was going to send him a note (electronic) and I stopped her from doing that because I just wasn’t going back to this guy and obviously his opinion might be a little unhelpful anyway.

    In any case, if you keep going to different doctors for pain relief you will be noted as shopping for doctors. I’m not sure how you happen to find a good fit unless you make appointments but it is the way it is.
    @jaders...I’ve read the same studies about women and blacks being perceived differently in medical situations than white men. Myself, I’ve only felt dismissed by 1 or 2 doctors (both male) although I’m not sure if it was my being female or that they didn’t believe in my condition.
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