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Thread: doctors are being jerks

  1. #41
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    @M77...I don’t think you’re being pretentious and you make very good points. Doctors develop impressions of us the same as we do of them. If my any of my doctors are dismissive or don’t seem up on my particular conditions, then I look for someone else who can help me more. It’s not a matter of doctor shopping for meds but of doctor shopping for someone who can help me.

    I’m not crazy about my current neurologist and have had many but she is giving me what I need right now which are the Botox injections for migraine. I don’t need to know or care about her depth of knowledge on COPD as long as she doesn’t prescribe anything that interferes with that.

    I guess I’m lucky? In that I’ve got a lot of specialists so if one doctor says something that sounds ill informed I just say “oh...I’ll have to mention or ask my pulmonary specialist about that”.

    I don’t think it’s ever a good idea to directly ask for any med but to describe symptoms and say something like...I’ve heard about x, y, and z...can you give me more info on each of them or any others. I’m not saying to play dumb, just more like what you’ve said about having done research and discussing these things.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Bawston View Post
    @M77...I don’t think you’re being pretentious and you make very good points. Doctors develop impressions of us the same as we do of them. If my any of my doctors are dismissive or don’t seem up on my particular conditions, then I look for someone else who can help me more. It’s not a matter of doctor shopping for meds but of doctor shopping for someone who can help me.

    I’m not crazy about my current neurologist and have had many but she is giving me what I need right now which are the Botox injections for migraine. I don’t need to know or care about her depth of knowledge on COPD as long as she doesn’t prescribe anything that interferes with that.

    I guess I’m lucky? In that I’ve got a lot of specialists so if one doctor says something that sounds ill informed I just say “oh...I’ll have to mention or ask my pulmonary specialist about that”.

    I don’t think it’s ever a good idea to directly ask for any med but to describe symptoms and say something like...I’ve heard about x, y, and z...can you give me more info on each of them or any others. I’m not saying to play dumb, just more like what you’ve said about having done research and discussing these things.
    @Bawston
    I appreciate your post, and I completely agree. I should have been more clear about my asking for Soma. Just blurting out Soma would have guaranteed the “no way,” I received. I had already had been prescribed, and hung in there with Robaxin (methocarbamol) before the Tizanidine, and the Soma would have been the third muscle relaxant, along with my already prescribed pk, which I take with Lyrica (pregabalin) and Nortriptyline. I have pretty severe neuropathy, along with some other severe stuff. I try to keep my writing as short as possible, which I learned to be the best approach, and I didn’t want to bore everyone with the backstory. So when I asked for the Soma, I had already been taking two other muscle relaxants prior, and had told my doctor that I had read some studies that showed Soma to be the most effective. My pk is already a schedule 2, and the Lyrica is also scheduled, so I was trying to sneak in a third controlled substance. When I say sneak in, I don’t mean in “drug shopping” way, and I know that wasn’t what you were suggesting. But it would have been stupid to just shoot out the name. I honestly thought that the Lyrica wasn’t doing anything, and I was having some short term memory issues, so I stopped the Lyrica, and interestingly, while I thought it wasn’t helping, stopping it proved me wrong.

    I’m glad you brought up neurologists. I had a spinal injection, from a neurologist, about 20 years ago, and I ended up having a seizure that evening. The injection, which was done in the doctor’s office, with no radiological help, which is used extensively now, was Kenalog. I later found out this was a steroid usually used for things like “tennis elbow” and had a warning not to be used anywhere near neural tissue. So this brilliant doctor, who was trying to get it into a herniated disc, without anything to make sure they got it in the right place, ended up getting some, or all of it, in my spinal canal. I obviously didn’t get a chance to look this up prior to the procedure, because it was a surprise procedure, and I should have said no. Lesson learned. I have multiple herniated discs, but this was a trial for the worst one. I have gotten multiple diagnoses for my neuropathy, so three different neurologists had three different opinions. Plus, I have other conditions that can cause neuropathy, and the consensus is from impingement of my spinal canal, from the herniated discs. I know you have had serious surgery, so I know you can empathize, I had three botched surgeries, and need a a 4th, but I just won’t do it again. One surgeon did such a lousy job that I could barely walk for a year. The last time, I recovered in a few weeks, proving that all surgeons are not created equal. The third time was the most complicated, but after a week in the hospital, I could actually walk out. The second was a mess. None of them were even related to my herniated discs, but I learned that if I ever do decide to, or have no choice, I am going to do a ton of research into the surgeon, and the procedure, which brings us full circle to the point of this. Doing your homework is well worth the time, regardless of it is a medication, or a procedure.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by File Error 500 View Post
    I thought that the rudeness and doctors would go away with taking Suboxone but it isn’t the case. Doctors and nurses see that I am prescribed Suboxone and treat me as if I am a drug addict. Even though they don’t know why I am on it. The treatment by doctors and nurses since I went on Suboxone is horrible. Enough so that I am crying or depressed for several days afterwards.

    I am going to order my meds which are non-controlled from AllyDayChemist etc. because I am tired of it.
    Geez, I'm so sorry to read this. This is EXACTLY why I'm going to be using my own judgement about my own needs unless I get to a point where I absolutely CAN'T. Until this stigma ends, the "opiate crizus" won't be ending either...

    I am curious how well you like the suboxone tho still?
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    The cause of all suffering is attachment...

  4. #44
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    @M77...boy sounds like you’ve been through a lot! I think the longer you’ve been in the medical system, the more you learn to be very wary and get the research done. My nerve blocks were done with the radiology and involved doing 4 quadrants each spaced out a month apart. The problem for me was between doing the neck and lower back and right side, left side I could not discern much difference because by the time he got to the 4th set of injections the 1st was pretty much worn off.

    I think the doctor as well as the hospital’s reputation is very important. If I’m getting surgery I not only want someone with a good success rate but also lots of those surgeries. Don’t need a doctor who “saw it on a YouTube video”.

    I will go into Boston for major work and surgeries so we have plenty of top hospitals to chose from. when I was having my hip replaced, New England Baptist is where everyone seems to go but because I have a number of other medical conditions my rheumatologist recommended that I use Brighams because she felt they’d be better prepared if I had side issues or complications since they’re more well rounded with all specialists.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Bawston View Post
    @M77...boy sounds like you’ve been through a lot! I think the longer you’ve been in the medical system, the more you learn to be very wary and get the research done. My nerve blocks were done with the radiology and involved doing 4 quadrants each spaced out a month apart. The problem for me was between doing the neck and lower back and right side, left side I could not discern much difference because by the time he got to the 4th set of injections the 1st was pretty much worn off.

    I think the doctor as well as the hospital’s reputation is very important. If I’m getting surgery I not only want someone with a good success rate but also lots of those surgeries. Don’t need a doctor who “saw it on a YouTube video”.

    I will go into Boston for major work and surgeries so we have plenty of top hospitals to chose from. when I was having my hip replaced, New England Baptist is where everyone seems to go but because I have a number of other medical conditions my rheumatologist recommended that I use Brighams because she felt they’d be better prepared if I had side issues or complications since they’re more well rounded with all specialists.
    @Bawston
    Coincidentally, the in office injection done by the neurologist, was exactly where your 4th set was. It was in my the Thoracic area of my spine, specifically T4. When I had the seizure that evening, I was literally shaking, my teeth where chattering non-stop, and I didn’t know if I was going to survive it. I had a family member holding a phone, in case I decided to have them call 911, but I rode it out. It was stupid, but I had a young child, and couldn’t bare the thought of her seeing me taken away in an ambulance. In hindsight, it would have been worse if I didn’t make it, but as we all know the cliche about hindsight.

    As far as the surgeries, the first two were done in a highly respected suburban hospital. It was at one time considered one of the best hospitals in the country. It wasn’t their fault, it was the surgeon, who was supposedly highly respected. Like an idiot, I used the same guy the second time. Shame on me. The second was really botched. As I mentioned, it took a year to recover.

    For number 3, I pulled out all the cards, and travelled to a top NYC hospital. The surgeon was a top guy in the field, and had previously been a surgeon to a President. After I met him, and was examined by him, he reviewed the surgical notes, and he was so appalled by the conduct of the previous surgeon, he offered to testify in a malpractice suit. I sort of liked the guy (the earlier surgeon) and just couldn’t wrap my hands around the guy getting a Summons and Complaint, and wrecking his practice with probably a 400% increase in his malpractice insurance. Hindsight strikes again. One of the dumbest things I ever did was not pursue that. I hate litigious people, and I just couldn’t do it. Probably would have paid for my house. Plus, it was a valid case, and the third surgeon specialized in my condition, and it took two months to schedule the surgery, because he was lecturing across Europe, on how to do my exact condition properly. He was long gone, when I had a recurrence of the same thing, 14 years later. Certainly not his fault, and if he was still around, I wouldn’t be so hesitant to do it again.

    I found a stark difference in the post surgical treatment at the NYC hospital versus the suburban hospital. I was forewarned, and was able to hire a private nurse. The cost was astronomical, and not covered by insurance, but was well worth it. I would do it again. I guess if I ever do number 4, I would probably use the suburban hospital, but bring in the surgeon. Of course that has numerous problems, like admitting privileges, surgical privileges, etc., but I assume if the surgeon has the right reputation, that would work out. When I used the expert surgeon for round 3, he had admitting privileges in every NYC hospital, and I let him pick.
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  6. #46
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    @M77...funny but I felt the same way about my daughter seeing me sick but especially in a hospital bed or taken in an ambulance. My husband is even worse although our daughter is grown and married. I was having to fight with him to even let me take him to the hospital when he had sharp chest pains one morning, believe me next time he doesn’t get a choice - I’m dialing 911 !!!

    I have friends who have had family in NYC hospitals and they’ve done the same thing with hiring a private nurse. It’s a shame to have to do that but a good choice in many cases. As for suing, I always remember a doctor friend of mine who mentioned lawsuits, even if they’re justified. He said good luck ever getting another surgeon. Not only can we get info on lawsuits against doctors but they can also get info on patients...not just lawsuits but those “patient notes” that hang around forever and get passed along with all your records.
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  7. #47
    @Bawston
    Wow! That is something I never thought about, and it makes perfect sense. The idiotic HIPPA was supposed to keep our health info private, but instead, it gives the gov, the insurance companies (they got it already, unless you paid cash), and of course doctors all access. Could you imagine needing life saving surgery, and no one will touch you but a resident? I can’t believe that I missed that. I am not the type to look back at dumb decisions, but now I can look back and be happy I didn’t do it. You made my day, week, and year! LOL. Sorry for the overreaction, but I should have figured that one out on my own.

    I’m glad my non-litigious demeanor kept me in check. A doctor friend showed me a chart, over 30 years ago, that showed the average cost of malpractice insurance. It started with GP at $10,000 a year, as the lowest, and the top was neurosurgeon, at $100,000 a year. Could you imagine what it must cost now? Literally, seeing that chart was why I didn’t do it. I didn’t want to hurt the surgeon financially. I have my own version of the Golden Rule. I actually pictured devastating the surgeon’s practice, because even filing the lawsuit, most malpractice policies have a huge upfront deductible, which I know from another doctor, is like $30,000 to $50,000, that goes right to the insurance companies defense attorney, upfront, the minute a claim is filed. That was a long time ago. I suppose it could be more now. Or optional, based on their premium.

    No disrespect to anyone on the forum (sincerely) but insurance companies are the most devious, slimy, corporations in the world. I know factually that they don’t want to pay legitimate claims, and will use any loophole to dodge paying, or pay less. I apologize to anyone on here that may work for one, I know plenty of people in the industry, and it’s not the employees. It is the owners, shareholders, or Board if Directors.
    The business model is premiums come in, they pay as little as possible, to protect the bottom line. The excuse is that they have a duty to their shareholders to keep their bottom line up.
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  8. #48
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    @M77...another specialty that’s got sky high premiums is ob/gyn and the best doctors, at least in this area, have very busy practices and many aren’t accepting new patients. They say they’ll put you on a list but which is probably true but I’m also guessing they’re doing a check on you too. The reason why I have this hunch is that a friend of mine got put on a wait list but an opening came up in about 8 days.

    HIPPA is the biggest joke going. Basically anyone, now including law enforcement, can get your medical info...except your family - they can’t get it unless you specify them. And I couldn’t agree with you more on insurance companies! Did you ever notice how dentists started charging more once dental insurance became a common company benefit? Not just the charge but suddenly you can’t get a cleaning without a full set of xrays every year. The one that really gets me is they’re allowed by most dental insurance companies to charge for this “cancer screening” at every cleaning appointment.

    Although the hygienist is in your mouth for an hour, they still call in the dentist who pulls out your tongue, looks and charges you $50. I don’t have dental insurance and changed dentists because I told them I didn’t want the xrays and have a primary care doc, plus my pulmonary specialist who does the same check every year. They said they wouldn’t keep me as a patient and said it was their insurance requirements. Seriously? How many dentists have been sued because they missed an oral cancer diagnosis?
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  9. #49
    @Bawston
    When I mentioned the list of malpractice premiums, I only mentioned the lowest, and highest, because the list was pretty extensive, and I would have been lying to say that I remembered the whole thing. But I know that Oby/Gyn’s get hammered too. The reason is pretty disgusting, although I can say there might be a little bit of mitigation on that. A family member has a friend of a friend, that is part of a law firm, that ambulance chases families that have just given birth to a special needs child. I was absolutely horrified. Allegedly, many of these cases are caused by incompetence when they are delivering babies. The only way I can even stand to think of this is, IF there really was a mistake, which we all know happens, and is hidden, everyday, if the money is necessary for the parents that would need 24 hour nursing, for years, and would really need the money, and of course if the delivering doctor did really screw up. Of course they have no way to really know, and the only way the lawyers vet these cases is if they can raise enough reasonable doubt to win something. Of course we all pay in the end through premiums for health insurance, and other costs that get passed to the consumer.

    I had dental insurance for many years, and even with the best plan you could get, there were always copays, and crazy things, like 50% copays on root canals. I don’t live in a big rich city, but the dentists where I am try to get you for $280-$300 for a cleaning! Then they have the guts to recommend a “deep scaling,” and they charge $400-$500 per quadrant. My family benefited by all the years of dental coverage, because now, going for a checkup, X-rays, and the cavity they always seem to find, turns into $2,000! I know this is hard to believe, but it is true.

    Medical school is a long commitment, and very expensive (unless you get scholarships throughout) and even now they end up with hundreds of thousands in loans, and dentists do go to a type of medical school, but the last numbers I heard, a while ago, was that the average dental practice nets around $600,000 a year, with orthodontists much higher. I really can’t take it much more!
    Last edited by M77; 6 Days Ago at 07:18 PM. Reason: Cleaned up typos
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  10. #50
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    I do have (retiree) dental insurance, which barely recovers the premiums I pay. But, at least around here, where there are relatively few patients who do have dental coverage, the (good) dentists lower their "out of network/over coverage" costs by a LARGE amount, to a price that's actually a bit lower than the insurance discounted amount, especially for major dental work. Of course, dentists don't face nearly as obscene costs for their own practice insurance, as do MDs. I have a lot of restorative dental work that I need badly, and the difference between the "Treatment Case" price (i.e. what they would bill my insurer, if they were to cover it all) and the actual cost I am really going to incur, differs by a factor of nearly 3 - about the price of a new, mid-sized sedan. Medical/dental insurance is a scam, folks, if you haven't already figured that out, which I assume most of you have, given that you are here on this forum. The amount of $$ that the insurance companies skim off of all of us is revolting.

    But I'm not really sure this rant is really aligned with the topic, "doctors being jerks," heh. So I do apologize for my off-topic rant. Heheh. (Yeah, no, not really.)
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  11. #51
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    @M77...true story: I worked for a large corporation and the corporate lawyer’s wife had healthy twins. He sued the doctor because he claimed the doctor didn’t tell them it was twins (this was a number of years ago before standard testing). He brought the amount to a point that the doctor just had his insurance pay off rather than go through the courts. The lawyer told me he didn’t care, he had the time and expertise and all he wanted was to get the nursery paid for (double cribs, strollers, etc). This guy was always suing somebody and in most cases people would just settle. What got me was he was making major bucks in his corporate job so there’s no love lost toward him. Oh, by the way...my doctor friend also told me that many docs will not accept any lawyers or wives of lawyers.

    Sad thing with a lot of these lawsuits is that many times people sue because they don’t like the outcome. I can see how hard it is to raise a special needs child and if a case goes to court the jury will probably be swayed.
    @calgal99...dentists often fall under the category of jerks too and they do get called doctor. Most dentists around here will give seniors a 10% discount. You’re right about dental insurance being a rip off. I calculated out what the annual premium would cover...basically 2 cleanings/year and half the cost of a crown. Better to just save the money for future crowns. I also read that dentists retire earlier than most other professions.
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    Seems like ever since the FDA came out with their “guidelines” every pain patient is being treated like a freak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurboV8 View Post
    Shit bothers me so much. I went to the closest medical center because of a flare up of my dislocated hip and slipped disc's, walked up to the counter somewhat hyperventilating and told the staff at the nurses station what was going on with me. The lady behind the desk said "well, we don't provide pain medication of any kind so I don't know what you want us to do." I told them that all I wanted was a Ketorolac shot, she turned to I'm guessing a supervisor and they told me that I needed to go to the ER. After I went, I asked for a Ketoralac shot and a few minutes later I was fine. It's annoying how some medical staff are so quick to judge.
    Hi!
    Ketorolac injections are the only anti inflammatory that works for me! I remember the 1st time I had 1 & it was like magic! I get 1 every month & my pain Doc scribes me a couple to give myself a shit at home. I'd be a total wreck w/o it, especially now w/my state being the worst in the country for pain patients. I was forced off a regime that took me yrs of specialists & docs to find the right combo of meds that helped. Funny thing is that this right combo of meds was equivalency wise, 1/2 of what I was taking prior. But 2 yrs ago even tho I have wheelbarrows full of records, have been 100% compliant in everything, have even had old docs write in my charts that I'm a good patient, non addict, my current PM clinic still took me off everything & only gave me the choice of buprenorphine.
    When my disabilities were 1/2 as bad as they are now, bupe worked great if I had diazepam for the severe body wise muscle cramps I get, nerve damage everywhere & ketorolac injections. But now so much else has happened to my body & the nurse at my PM docs office as well as the staff, outright lie to the patients about everything that has to do w/pain meds & will make you feel like total garbage, that your an addict if you tell them the ridiculous minuscule amount of meds that they cut you back to don't work. They treat everyone like someone who's never taken pain meds, has no tolerance & expect 5mg of oxy every 8 hrs to be enough even after surgery.... it's pathetic.
    There's an awesome FB group if you all want to join that was started for Oregon but the moderator is amazing at keeping the page updated w/national news. The stuff I've learned from this group is crazy & appalling!

    Anyhow, ketorolac injections are great! The pill form is no bettter than Advil but the injections are the best. You just can't have many injections per month because it's hard on your liver. But 1-2 a month is fine!

    Take care all,
    SP
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Bawston View Post
    @M77...true story: I worked for a large corporation and the corporate lawyer’s wife had healthy twins. He sued the doctor because he claimed the doctor didn’t tell them it was twins (this was a number of years ago before standard testing). He brought the amount to a point that the doctor just had his insurance pay off rather than go through the courts. The lawyer told me he didn’t care, he had the time and expertise and all he wanted was to get the nursery paid for (double cribs, strollers, etc). This guy was always suing somebody and in most cases people would just settle. What got me was he was making major bucks in his corporate job so there’s no love lost toward him. Oh, by the way...my doctor friend also told me that many docs will not accept any lawyers or wives of lawyers.

    Sad thing with a lot of these lawsuits is that many times people sue because they don’t like the outcome. I can see how hard it is to raise a special needs child and if a case goes to court the jury will probably be swayed.
    @calgal99...dentists often fall under the category of jerks too and they do get called doctor. Most dentists around here will give seniors a 10% discount. You’re right about dental insurance being a rip off. I calculated out what the annual premium would cover...basically 2 cleanings/year and half the cost of a crown. Better to just save the money for future crowns. I also read that dentists retire earlier than most other professions.
    @Bawston
    I think the first year in law school is ethics, which is really a guide to what you have to be more cautious doing.

    As far as dentists, supposedly they have the highest rate of suicide, because none of their patients are happy to see them! Not making that up!
    Likes jakemoe liked this post

  15. #55
    Join Date
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    Bawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond repute
    Bawston has a reputation beyond repute
    @M77...I did hear of dentists suicide rates. Let’s face it, of all the medical professionals you can think of, who do you dread the most? For me it’s hands down dentists! Even just for cleanings I tend to cancel about 3 times before I get my butt in there.
    Likes M77 liked this post

  16. #56
    Join Date
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    Bawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond reputeBawston has a reputation beyond repute
    Bawston has a reputation beyond repute
    @sillypuppiez...thanks for the info on Ketorolac injections. I just looked it up for more information and see that it’s a NSAID. I’m surprised that the injections are harder on the liver than the pill form. Usually it’s just the opposite - or at least that’s what they always say in the hospital when they give you whatever version of an NSAID they have for you...oh you won’t have problems with the injection.

    If you’re in Oregon then I feel for you based on what I’ve read. That is a really sad situation. Is it correct that pain meds have to be prescribed through a pain clinic only unless it’s post surgery? That was the impression I got when they were taking about it here in my state.
    Likes M77 liked this post

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