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Thread: Article - The Myth of What's Driving the Opioid Crisis

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Bawston View Post
    @Anne Onomis...
    The other issue I have is the enormous dollars being raked in by drug testing. I don't know how it is in other parts of the country, but in this state I don't know of any employer who doesn't require a drug test. This is for any type of job, not just the legally required for drivers, etc. It's probably an insurance thing. But I'm reading now with the changes being made to Medicare that drug testing is going to be required! That's our tax dollars. So granny in the nursing home will have to give a urine sample to have her nursing home care paid for. Aren't we a great society.
    This sits badly with me as well. Makes so many problems in society worse when people cannot find/maintain employment. If a person is unable to earn a living, in a society with next to no safety net, what do they think is going to happen, most won't sit back and quietly starve...
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    Article - The Myth of What's Driving the Opioid Crisis
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRNUTTY View Post
    @Bawston, I sympathize wholeheartedly! I’m also self-tapering from a fairly low dose of DHC to try to get out of the game entirely. I also can’t take any NSAID’s due to urinary retention problems. Opioids also contribute to the problem - literally everything seems to! So, I’m expecting kickback when I mention my inability to take NSAID’s. When I bring it up, I’ll preface it with a opioid disclaimer FIRST :-) I’ll probably get a mouth full of crap just the same. Is there anything other than NSAID’s, opioids or Gabapentin-like meds - which I also can’t stand? Looks like it’s a lifetime of pain for me... oh well, it’s not like anything else is going right in the world anyway. Who knew the future was going to be so depressing?
    @MRNUTTY...I can't take any of the GABA based medications either and that's another one the doctors love to push, especially if you've got fibromyalgia. I always point out that the company that came up with Neurontin and Lyrica got sued for their reps pushing doctors to use it off label.

    Frankly I'll be first in line when our marijuana stores open this summer. I'm hoping that my taper will be very low at that point and I'll just shift over and leave these 3 month doctor visits behind. I also get very frustrated because although our state requires a visit every 3 months, I still have to jump through hoops to get my doctor to just print out a script for the months I don't have to see her. I use their online system to request it, then I call a day ahead to verify they got it and that I'm coming in the next day, then that morning I call again and say "I'm on my way in". It never fails though, the person answering the phones say "oh you need to wait because the doctor hasn't signed it yet". And I always say...well I'm already on my way in!
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    @Bawston, I tried Medical Marijuana for about 11 months, then I developed urinary retention issues. Now virtually everything I take seems to exacerbate the issue - included the THC in MMJ :-(

    In our state we have marijuana ‘doctors’ that can prescribe MMJ for a variety of issues. You only have to see them once a year. They’re legalizing recreational marijuana this summer, but recreational strains all tended to be higher in THC than medical strains, which have higher percentages of CBD, and other beneficial cannabinoids. I prefer the low THC strains due to reduced complications for issues mentioned above.

    When I was on an opioid regimen I also hated the repeat visits and fears of having my refills fall on business and vacation trips. There’s nothing more annoying and EXPENSIVE than to have to visit a CVS while you’re at Disney World without a rental car. The cost of the taxi and the lost opportunity of being at the parks.
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    I lost my son to a fentinyl overdose in August. He had just finished rehab for heroin addiction about 10 days before. A lot of parents I have encountered in this journey have reported that their children started out on prescription opioids...what they fail to admit is that these meds were NOT prescribed. They were stolen from mom and dad or grandma or, more likely, purchased on the street. I have come across many, many people who have lost adult children between 20 and 30 years of age. They seem to have all bought into the myth that prescription pain meds are to blame. I don’t understand - it isn’t OxyContin that is killing everyone.

    I want to know what is being done about the fentanyl that is being sold as heroin...and all of the other horrible drugs and chemicals found on the street. When I think about the campaign against prescription pain meds, it makes me furious. It just makes all of the politicians feel good about “doing something” to combat the opioid crisis. What we need is more treatment centers and mental health care. They would rather put our tax dollars to work prosecuting doctors and telling chronic pain patients to take Tylenol. I recently read a “study” that concluded that acetaminophen alone is just as and in some cases more effective than Vicodin...WTF?

    I know I’m rambling. I hope my comments make sense in the context of this discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smo1959 View Post
    I lost my son to a fentinyl overdose in August. He had just finished rehab for heroin addiction about 10 days before. A lot of parents I have encountered in this journey have reported that their children started out on prescription opioids...what they fail to admit is that these meds were NOT prescribed. They were stolen from mom and dad or grandma or, more likely, purchased on the street. I have come across many, many people who have lost adult children between 20 and 30 years of age. They seem to have all bought into the myth that prescription pain meds are to blame. I don’t understand - it isn’t OxyContin that is killing everyone.

    I want to know what is being done about the fentanyl that is being sold as heroin...and all of the other horrible drugs and chemicals found on the street. When I think about the campaign against prescription pain meds, it makes me furious. It just makes all of the politicians feel good about “doing something” to combat the opioid crisis. What we need is more treatment centers and mental health care. They would rather put our tax dollars to work prosecuting doctors and telling chronic pain patients to take Tylenol. I recently read a “study” that concluded that acetaminophen alone is just as and in some cases more effective than Vicodin...WTF?

    I know I’m rambling. I hope my comments make sense in the context of this discussion.
    It angers me too that chronic pain patients are the ones who are suffering from this "Opioid Crisis".
    In my town, there are deaths from fentanyl at least once a month. Most are teenagers.
    I'm so very sorry about your son.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smo1959 View Post
    I lost my son to a fentinyl overdose in August. He had just finished rehab for heroin addiction about 10 days before. A lot of parents I have encountered in this journey have reported that their children started out on prescription opioids...what they fail to admit is that these meds were NOT prescribed. They were stolen from mom and dad or grandma or, more likely, purchased on the street. I have come across many, many people who have lost adult children between 20 and 30 years of age. They seem to have all bought into the myth that prescription pain meds are to blame. I don’t understand - it isn’t OxyContin that is killing everyone.

    I want to know what is being done about the fentanyl that is being sold as heroin...and all of the other horrible drugs and chemicals found on the street. When I think about the campaign against prescription pain meds, it makes me furious. It just makes all of the politicians feel good about “doing something” to combat the opioid crisis. What we need is more treatment centers and mental health care. They would rather put our tax dollars to work prosecuting doctors and telling chronic pain patients to take Tylenol. I recently read a “study” that concluded that acetaminophen alone is just as and in some cases more effective than Vicodin...WTF?

    I know I’m rambling. I hope my comments make sense in the context of this discussion.
    Wow @smo1959. I'm terribly sorry to read this about your son too! I certainly agree with you that the drugs doing the killing involve heroin and fentanyl, NOT the rx meds. Attempting to NEVER allow anyone a decent amount of pain medication in some misguided attempt to get young people to never move to these lethal opiates seems so utterly misguided. My own (puny) opinion is that somehow heroin and fentanyl have become "acceptable" and so commonplace that kids don't seem to have the fear or desire to avoid them, like in "my day." I think what's going to happen is that doctors won't be prescribing opiates any longer (unless you're dying of cancer,) but the actual deaths from hardcore opiates won't go down. That may be the only way we finally see that this "solution" is anything but...

    Again, I'm so sorry. You may end up being an excellent spokesperson for this issue, if you have the heart for it. I would certainly understand if you didn't, however.
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  8. #27
    Very sorry for your loss too. For the young people with substance issues you mentioned, that 20-30 range with a history of high-risk behavior, harm-reduction strategies are truly needed to reduce deaths, but if they won't go for that I'd at least like to see them really invest in research and alternative strategies with regards to what actually works with helping them... in addition to factors I mentioned earlier, for that group in particular, the standard group rehab seems often more harmful than otherwise. Putting high-risk individuals who may not have totally bought into getting off their substances into a group with each other leads to them forming new contacts and gathers them in a convenient spot for dealers. Individual therapies over a longer stretch with a stronger focus on finding purpose, building life skills and coping strategies, and fixing specific roadblocks and pathologies with the individual would seem a much better start. Recent book I read by a dad with a son battling long-term addiction, none of the rehab centers helped, but getting out into the great outdoors (near where I am, which is an outdoor paradise) and working on farms and in the wilderness actually did. They have to find purpose and have hope for the future, and get away from bad influences, not stuck in close quarters with new ones. As it is now too, traditional rehab usually boots you if you relapse - as I read elsewhere, that makes as much sense as kicking a cancer patient out of treatment when a tumor metastasizes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRNUTTY View Post
    @Bawston, I tried Medical Marijuana for about 11 months, then I developed urinary retention issues. Now virtually everything I take seems to exacerbate the issue - included the THC in MMJ :-(

    In our state we have marijuana ‘doctors’ that can prescribe MMJ for a variety of issues. You only have to see them once a year. They’re legalizing recreational marijuana this summer, but recreational strains all tended to be higher in THC than medical strains, which have higher percentages of CBD, and other beneficial cannabinoids. I prefer the low THC strains due to reduced complications for issues mentioned above.

    When I was on an opioid regimen I also hated the repeat visits and fears of having my refills fall on business and vacation trips. There’s nothing more annoying and EXPENSIVE than to have to visit a CVS while you’re at Disney World without a rental car. The cost of the taxi and the lost opportunity of being at the parks.
    @MRNUTTY... is there anything they can do about the urinary retention issues? That sounds like something that could continue to get worse over time. Interesting that the marijuana also is a problem.

    We've got the medical marijuana now but first you have to search for a doctor who will prescribe and then I'm pretty sure that I saw that there's a $300 fee to get a card to buy it! Now that's a rip off and truly a reason to buy on the streets.

    But, that's why I'll stay with my prescription for now and in July see how the marijuana works out, then adios to this doctor I've been seeing. And yes, you're absolutely right about that extra stress of finding out that your doctor's on vacation when your prescription is due. Supposedly, their backup is required to prescribe when they cover but I've run into that one time and it's a horror show.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRNUTTY View Post
    @Bawston, I tried Medical Marijuana for about 11 months, then I developed urinary retention issues. Now virtually everything I take seems to exacerbate the issue - included the THC in MMJ :-(

    In our state we have marijuana ‘doctors’ that can prescribe MMJ for a variety of issues. You only have to see them once a year. They’re legalizing recreational marijuana this summer, but recreational strains all tended to be higher in THC than medical strains, which have higher percentages of CBD, and other beneficial cannabinoids. I prefer the low THC strains due to reduced complications for issues mentioned above.

    When I was on an opioid regimen I also hated the repeat visits and fears of having my refills fall on business and vacation trips. There’s nothing more annoying and EXPENSIVE than to have to visit a CVS while you’re at Disney World without a rental car. The cost of the taxi and the lost opportunity of being at the parks.
    @MRNUTTY... is there anything they can do about the urinary retention issues? That sounds like something that could continue to get worse over time. Interesting that the marijuana also is a problem.

    We've got the medical marijuana now but first you have to search for a doctor who will prescribe and then I'm pretty sure that I saw that there's a $300 fee to get a card to buy it! Now that's a rip off and truly a reason to buy on the streets.

    But, that's why I'll stay with my prescription for now and in July see how the marijuana works out, then adios to this doctor I've been seeing. And yes, you're absolutely right about that extra stress of finding out that your doctor's on vacation when your prescription is due. Supposedly, their backup is required to prescribe when they cover but I've run into that one time and it's a horror show.
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    @Anne Onomis thanks for sharing the news article by the way. It is excellent and I believe very factual. I am involved with a small support group for parents who have lost children to opioids. We are just getting started but already I can see that most everyone blames overprescribing pain meds as the root cause of the current crisis - even though none of their loved ones died from substances prescribed for pain. There also seems to be a strong sentiment against giving addicts suboxin (sp?)and other drugs to prevent relapse. Both issues are discussed in the article, so I think I will make copies for our next meeting.
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    This is crazy... A man that lives near me was arrested today for giving his son's girlfriend a fentanyl patch, which she chewed on and then died.
    16 years old and never used it before that night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowy View Post
    This is crazy... A man that lives near me was arrested today for giving his son's girlfriend a fentanyl patch, which she chewed on and then died.
    16 years old and never used it before that night.
    OMG. What a nightmare...two families shattered and a 16 year old gone. What was that man thinking?
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    @smo1959

    My deepest condolences. From one mother to another.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bawston View Post
    @notcharlotte...I've read similar studies and it makes me mad that we, as taxpayers are going to be paying for all this drug testing. As you say, we're paying for treatment if there is a problem so where is the benefit? Many on Medicaid are elderly, children and veterans. My question would be - other than the young children, how many of those who tested positive were on legitimately prescribed medications that of course would test positive? Did they factormthat in? Many are disabled in which case I'd bet there's some who are prescribed pain meds.

    Oh if only I owned a stake in a drug testing lab! I'd be rich.
    Just had to say I work for a large commercial laboratory and drug testing is a big money maker...not just drugs of abuse but also therapeutic drugs. There are several publicly traded lab companies...you can always buy stock and then you too can benefit from our tax dollars!

    And my favorite drug testing story...my 89 year old mother has to be drug tested every 3 months in order to get her Tramadol prescription. She had to sign a contract with her doctor...did I mention she has Alzheimer’s? She isn’t competent to enter into a contract much less start selling or giving away her Tramadol. Or maybe they are afraid she’s doing cocaine or smoking pot on the side? The world has gone insane.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smo1959 View Post
    @Anne Onomis thanks for sharing the news article by the way. It is excellent and I believe very factual. I am involved with a small support group for parents who have lost children to opioids. We are just getting started but already I can see that most everyone blames overprescribing pain meds as the root cause of the current crisis - even though none of their loved ones died from substances prescribed for pain. There also seems to be a strong sentiment against giving addicts suboxin (sp?)and other drugs to prevent relapse. Both issues are discussed in the article, so I think I will make copies for our next meeting.
    Boy, you're really opening my eyes to why this "crisis" keeps gaining traction. I know a young man whose wife died 2 years ago. They were both "using" pain meds and one went to heroin and sadly od'd leaving behind a 2 yr. old. However, the husband went on suboxone, and is doing very well with that. I'm really sorry to hear that replacement therapies are looked down upon so much, and while understandable, most parents would much rather find a "villian" in someone else, than admit that their child succumbed to a deadly addiction. To me, addictions at that level are sort of like a form of cancer. We don't know how to "cure" it and we're still in the dark ages in treating it, but blaming a whole industry and denying others access, is just crazy. Again, I can think of all sorts of analogies, but sadly I think it's going to take a lot more pain and misery, to sort this issue out in a productive manner...

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  17. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by smo1959 View Post
    And my favorite drug testing story...my 89 year old mother has to be drug tested every 3 months in order to get her Tramadol prescription. She had to sign a contract with her doctor...did I mention she has Alzheimer’s? She isn’t competent to enter into a contract much less start selling or giving away her Tramadol. Or maybe they are afraid she’s doing cocaine or smoking pot on the side? The world has gone insane.
    It is so crazy... so basically, if an elderly person in an assisted care facility is having their meds stolen or swapped out by a worker, then they get punished when they test negative for the med, with nobody even bothering I'm sure to look into the possibility that person is being mistreated or stolen from.
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  18. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by smo1959 View Post
    [MENTION=43843]There also seems to be a strong sentiment against giving addicts suboxin (sp?)and other drugs to prevent relapse. Both issues are discussed in the article, so I think I will make copies for our next meeting.
    Happy I can help you with this! The most common misconception with medication assisted treatment (MAT) is that it is swapping out one drug for another - it isn't. The medications don't get them high, they just stave off cravings and withdrawal so they can better focus on their recovery and be less likely to relapse. Available statistics support the use of it strongly. While it is true some may be on it for a long time or even life, the same goes for managing a number of other conditions, like diabetes.

    Here are some more resources that may help in talking to your group about this-
    https://www.samhsa.gov/medication-as...ns-used-in-mat
    https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...ine-naltrexone
    Last edited by Anne Onomis; 03-15-2018 at 10:44 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smo1959 View Post
    I lost my son to a fentinyl overdose in August. He had just finished rehab for heroin addiction about 10 days before. A lot of parents I have encountered in this journey have reported that their children started out on prescription opioids...what they fail to admit is that these meds were NOT prescribed. They were stolen from mom and dad or grandma or, more likely, purchased on the street. I have come across many, many people who have lost adult children between 20 and 30 years of age. They seem to have all bought into the myth that prescription pain meds are to blame. I don’t understand - it isn’t OxyContin that is killing everyone.

    I want to know what is being done about the fentanyl that is being sold as heroin...and all of the other horrible drugs and chemicals found on the street. When I think about the campaign against prescription pain meds, it makes me furious. It just makes all of the politicians feel good about “doing something” to combat the opioid crisis. What we need is more treatment centers and mental health care. They would rather put our tax dollars to work prosecuting doctors and telling chronic pain patients to take Tylenol. I recently read a “study” that concluded that acetaminophen alone is just as and in some cases more effective than Vicodin...WTF?

    I know I’m rambling. I hope my comments make sense in the context of this discussion.
    I am so sorry for your loss. As you probably already know now, first hand, doing the right thing is never the popular thing, and it sounds like you really want to do the right thing.

    It makes us really, really unpopular when we stand up for the truth. A lot of people will say they do, too, and then back away at the crux, so keep your head high. I am so sorry about your son. Your rambling is welcome as I feel you probably have a lot insights that many of us wouldn't have.

    I agree about the treatment centres and mental health 100%. The first thing that needs to begin changing is the way treatment centres function, as well. It cannot be the separatist view that they've traditionally had. It has to be more inclusive. It seems to be a huge stumbling block for a lot of recovering addicts, along with the whole religion/faith/god thing. It can and should be secular and powerful as a choice if that's what the person needs and not frowned upon as inferior. Also, as you discovered, the NO DRUGS EVER. There are so many strident lines that it becomes confusing. Is caffeine a drug? Yes. Is nicotine a drug? Yes. Yet taking a med that prevents relapse is a sign of weakness? Well then, eating should be seen as a weakness because we surely are dependent on that as well.

    I guess you can kind of see where I'm going.

    I've struggled with these issues for a long time and worked with lots of people in recovery and seen a lot of relapse and death.

    Prior to the hit and run accident I survived in 2017 that made me now be a "living with chronic pain" candidate, I was teaching my classes and using them as a segway to helping people in recovery. During the healing process I had a lot of times to think. LOL And so I'm going back to school to get a degree in mental health. I'm hoping to combine a bunch of my skills (I guess that's a good way to put it) to try to help.

    Anyhow, I hope you'll share more. Thank you for what you wrote and I wish you all the best.

    RB
    Last edited by Ravenousbird; 03-15-2018 at 11:14 AM. Reason: grammar!
    Helpful smo1959 Rated helpful

  20. #39
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    MRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond repute
    MRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond repute
    Quote Originally Posted by Bawston View Post
    @MRNUTTY... is there anything they can do about the urinary retention issues? That sounds like something that could continue to get worse over time. Interesting that the marijuana also is a problem.
    Currently, I’ve stopped taking virtually everything that can exacerbate the issue excluding a minimum of DHC for my chronic pain, and my high BP meds, and it’s made a marked improvement. Once things are stabilized (i.e. no need to catheterize), I’ll reintroduce stuff I was taking before. There appeared to be a causal relationship between the high THC MMJ and an increasing in problems. Plus the literature I read seemed to substantiate the connection. More trial and error to go!
    Likes Bawston liked this post
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  21. #40
    Join Date
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    MRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond repute
    MRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond reputeMRNUTTY has a reputation beyond repute
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenousbird View Post
    It seems to be a huge stumbling block for a lot of recovering addicts, along with the whole religion/faith/god thing. It can and should be secular and powerful as a choice if that's what the person needs and not frowned upon as inferior.
    From your description, it appeared to be heavily modeled after AA. I went to alcohol rebhab in the early 80’s, and they pushed AA on everyone. Luckily, I had an epiphany one morning early in the program after a delirious sleepless night due to my room mate snoring like a hog, and discovered life without alcohol was the way I wanted to go. I had a 1/2 liter of vodka locked in my car there (they kept our car keys). I drank some of it when I got home after the 3 weeks were up, and felt so sick I never wanted to drink again. ~35 years later and I still don’t drink. Some people have to challenge their convictions to see if they’re strong enough. I lucked out on that one - oh and quitting cigarettes too. Once you put your mind to it, giving it up is easier than expected. With the right physical addiction tools, the remainder is all in your head.
    Helpful C&T Rated helpful
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  22. Article - The Myth of What's Driving the Opioid Crisis
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