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Thread: What?!! Now they’re messing with cancer patients?

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    Default What?!! Now they’re messing with cancer patients?

    I don’t even know what to say about this! I had robotic surgery to remove a lung and I can tell you that the pain cannot even be described. When I woke up after surgery and took that 1st inhale I thought my chest was going to break into fragments. Yes, robotic surgery saved me from massive cutting and bone sawing but it’s no picnic.

    Also, anyone notice the stats? They say that cancer patients are particularly susceptible to addiction & have the highest rate of opioid OD death yet they then say that 6% become addicted. So these stats claiming that 20-30% of people getting opioids become addicted seems a stretch if cancer patients are the highest rate at 6%.

    The other thing that we’ve all talked about is that if you have an opioid in your system when you die, you get counted as an opioid death...is it possible that they died of cancer? Or just gave up because the cancer burden was too much? (Surgery, chemo, radiation).

    Specialized pain management program for patients who underwent robotic surgery for urologic cancers resulted in just 8% going home with narcotics after discharge, compared to 100% who would have received them without this enhanced recovery protocol. What’s more, the group of patients who did receive narcotics went home with fewer pills than they would have under regular guidelines. Researchers in the Perelman School of Medicine will present their findings at the 2019 American Society of Clinical Oncology Annual Meeting in Chicago.

    The key to our program was to start patients with over the counter medications, then escalate them as needed. This means patients whose pain can be managed without opioids never end up getting them in the first place, while patients whose pain warrants these prescriptions receive them when needed,” says lead author Ruchika Talwar, a resident in Urology. Thomas J. Guzzo, chief of Urology, is the study’s senior author.

    Cancer patients are particularly susceptible to opioid addiction, with recent studies showing they are 10 times more likely to die from an opioid overdose than the general public. About six percent of cancer patients who use opioids for the first time to manage pain after a surgery become addicted.


    Read more at Penn Medicine News.[/B]
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  2. #2
    That’s insane! My family members oncologist has always said that cancer patients are exempt from all the prescribing ‘recommendations’ so not to worry about pain management. With a 5 year survival rate for her type of cancer, who cares is she becomes addicted?! WTH
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyIrish View Post
    That’s insane! My family members oncologist has always said that cancer patients are exempt from all the prescribing ‘recommendations’ so not to worry about pain management. With a 5 year survival rate for her type of cancer, who cares is she becomes addicted?! WTH
    @LuckyIrish...well that WAS always the case! But now it seems that it’s become acceptable, even encouraged to make people feel as much pain as they can endure and make them beg for relief! And these people seem proud of their program - SMDH!!!!!

    I’m still trying to figure these numbers - WHY would cancer patients be 10 times more likely to die of overdose than the general public? I know there are situations where doctors will ok stronger and higher doses of opioids knowing that it could cause the death of a cancer patient. Usually that’s because there is pain and suffering and no hope of recovery from the cancer.

    Also, if 6% become addicted I’m. To sure that’s a very high number and even so, why not just continue with their prescription so they’re not out buying street drugs.

    I’d like to get @h2oshed65 in on this for an opinion & thoughts of if this is going to get traction.

    * not sure why this isn’t picking up full I’d for @h2oshed65 ?
    Last edited by Bawston; 07-31-2019 at 11:01 PM.
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    @Bawston, it looks like you have letter o in his id, & I think it's a zero, and not sure if ID is case sensitive. Anyway, see if this worked to tag him

    * not sure why this isn’t picking up full I’d for @h2oshed65 ?
    @H20shed65
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    @H20shed65...

    Any chance you have some input to this issue of pain relief for cancer patients? I know you have a lot of experience and good advice to people on here who are going through some pretty tough times. The fact that this is going to be presented at an oncology meeting, given the current situation with opioids is really concerning.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bawston View Post
    7
    @LuckyIrish...well that WAS always the case! But now it seems that it’s become acceptable, even encouraged to make people feel as much pain as they can endure and make them beg for relief! And these people seem proud of their program - SMDH!!!!!

    I’m still trying to figure these numbers - WHY would cancer patients be 10 times more likely to die of overdose than the general public? I know there are situations where doctors will ok stronger and higher doses of opioids knowing that it could cause the death of a cancer patient. Usually that’s because there is pain and suffering and no hope of recovery from the cancer.

    Also, if 6% become addicted I’m. To sure that’s a very high number and even so, why not just continue with their prescription so they’re not out buying street drugs.

    I’d like to get @h2oshed65 in on this for an opinion & thoughts of if this is going to get traction.

    * not sure why this isn’t picking up full I’d for @h2oshed65 ?
    Sure, because being in excruciating pain and begging for pain meds, perhaps getting them, perhaps not, is exactly how cancer patients should be spending their time
    and limited energy. It's not like they're busy fighting frigging CANCER or anything! Gah!!!
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  7. the cdc has back away from its prescribing guidelines for chronic pain patients, so i would just find a doctor who prescribed pks myself. as an anecdote, when i was a child i suffered from chronic utis. my mother worked for a urology group: this meant i got all the treatments. hospitalized twice for tests, for example. the worst thing they did in the office was basically stick in a catheter when i had an infection. i still remember the pain. no pks, not even children's aspirin. i had to go home to sit in the bathtub.

    i still have two chronic urological issues: my daughter has ic. i think i mentioned on another thread that she was told to take aloe pills. i was prescribed lido cream, a whopping $200.00 for 4 ozs.

    my point is urologists do not care about pain. i haven't read anything about this craziness extending to other types of pain patients. a small mass in the bladder removal probably hurts way less than a lung removal, @Bawston, but anyone who has had a catheter knows how much bladder/urethra issues hurt. at least in my experience, urologists are the most unsympathetic to pain. i have the urge to email these docs and call them out. the agony i experienced as a child was unreal, and i still remember it over fifty years later.
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    @notcharlotte...I’m feeling your pain. I remember as a kid having a lot of things done without any sort of painkiller. I had things like dental work, including extractions and lots of drilling done without even local novocaine. Years later, as an adult I had to have every filling removed because of the decay under those fillings that were done because he only stopped when the pain was unbearable. I believe at the time that the “wisdom” was that kids wouldn’t remember the pain so just do it and they’ll forget. You & I obviously must have special recall abilities!

    I missed your prior comment about aloe pills - how did that work out for her? I also got prescribed some sort of magic cream that was compounded (only $120 ??) that was about as useful as rubbing Crisco on my joints. When I had some major pain from other dental work I was told to try vitamin B.

    Is anyone else thinking of going into business selling their backyard weeds as wonder drugs? I’ve got all kinds of stuff out back that I can dehydrate and grind up...maybe mix it into a jar of Pond’s face cream, selling it for a burn price of $49.99 - if you buy it by midnight tonight!
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    @Bawston, your comments regarding kids and pain struck a nerve with me. I think adults thought kids weren't capable of feeling real pain because I went through some sh#t as a child. The dental work was horrible. My dentist was a sadist as was yours. Cavities filled without novacaine and his reasoning, " it's just a small one, you won't feel it". I felt it. I hated him and I still do. I really wonder about some of those jerks with drills. When I was a young teenager with braces he used to tighten them so much it hurt for a week. I complained, but was never offered anything from my parents except comments such as "it will feel better soon". I used to get ear infections and never had anything for pain. One summer I developed boils on my stomach (I had a very stressful childhood) and if you've ever had them you know pain. They were right at my waist and I couldn't even wear underpants because of the pain. I spent that summer in a nightie and my mom wouldn't let me outside because I had no underwear on and that would be inappropriate. Even aspirin would've helped but I was so naïve that I didn't know it was an option. Geez, the stuff that happens to us as children can be awful sometimes.
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    @jakemoe...I still remember every minute of those dentist appointments! This was before fluoride so I had plenty of cavities and it seems like every Saturday I would drag myself up those stairs and get subjected to that drilling until tears were streaming from my eyes. Of course it meant he couldn’t get all the decay out so I went through it all again, at least with novocaine but even that wasn’t pleasant.

    I never had boils and can’t imagine what that would have been like! I do remember being about 7 and having a cyst removed from my wrist in the doctor’s office. I had a local for that so I was awake when the doctor said “here turn your head”. I did and almost puked because he had my wrist open and thought it would be cool because he said “see, this is what the inside of your hand looks like”. Why would a kid want to see that?

    At least remembering all those crummy experiences, I made sure to always be with my daughter when she had injuries or procedures and I damn well insisted on her being properly medicated - during and after!
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    Yes, @Bawston I think that's the most we can do. Just make sure out children don't have to suffer like we did! You sound like a good daddy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakemoe View Post
    Yes, @Bawston I think that's the most we can do. Just make sure out children don't have to suffer like we did! You sound like a good daddy.
    @jakemoe...thank you...but I’m actually the best Mommy I can be...LOL. Although I do wake up in the wee hours of the morning and can’t fall back to sleep because 3:00 am is the best time to review your life and every mistake you ever made.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bawston View Post
    @jakemoe...thank you...but I’m actually the best Mommy I can be...LOL. Although I do wake up in the wee hours of the morning and can’t fall back to sleep because 3:00 am is the best time to review your life and every mistake you ever made.
    I was wondering about that, but I just guessed wrong!
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