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Thread: Thought I'd found a reliable vendor, now not so sure. Please help!

  1. #21
    @nobknee

    I don't believe there would be many "selective scammers" but I believe there are many IOPs with sloppy/careless business practices. For instance they can procure in batches -not from a pharma company- but from underground market, some batches may turn out to be bunk, but they may still sell them anyway. So their quality fluctuates. Similar sloppy practices are also possible wrt shipping.

    I'm very inexperienced in IOPs (just one transaction so far) so take it with a grain of salt.

    FWIW I only take balanced and somewhat longer reviews into consideration, don't buy without tracking, select vendors with well defined rules and procedures (high business discipline) and try to make sure that the IOP procures from pharma companies (not from the "OEM" market).
    Helpful nobknee, Mrs Parker, M77 Rated helpful

  2. #22
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    To have 2 packages not show in a normal amount of time looks pretty suspicious to me. I read recently tho that India and Singapore are getting a lot of scrutiny these days, so if it's from around there, you really may be a victim of seizing, in which case they very often don't even send a LL, especially if thru NY. Just my opinions, tho...

    Just tracking isn't usually a problem either - it's the having to sign that can be. If they'll ship again, I'd ask for tracking/no sig.
    Helpful Mrs Parker, M77 Rated helpful
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by temmuz View Post
    @nobknee

    I don't believe there would be many "selective scammers" but I believe there are many IOPs with sloppy/careless business practices. For instance they can procure in batches -not from a pharma company- but from underground market, some batches may turn out to be bunk, but they may still sell them anyway. So their quality fluctuates. Similar sloppy practices are also possible wrt shipping.

    I'm very inexperienced in IOPs (just one transaction so far) so take it with a grain of salt.

    FWIW I only take balanced and somewhat longer reviews into consideration, don't buy without tracking, select vendors with well defined rules and procedures (high business discipline) and try to make sure that the IOP procures from pharma companies (not from the "OEM" market).
    I don't know that there's really any way to verify their supplier. They're all going to say they source from companies whether they do or not, and original packaging presents a number of other problems. Testing upon receipt is the only way to really know for sure.

    I've been hearing mixed things about email-only vendors. In many ways, that seems like a more secure route to go. Although I found my super-reliable vendor by simply Googling and going with the first site I hit. I was THAT naive and it actually worked out. Pure dumb luck. I would never recommend doing that. I don't necessarily see the advantage of a vendor having a website though.

    Pricing is another thing I look at. If they're way over or way under current market values, then I figure something is probably hinky.
    Helpful Mrs Parker, ludwig1961, M77 Rated helpful
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by temmuz View Post
    @nobknee

    I don't believe there would be many "selective scammers" but I believe there are many IOPs with sloppy/careless business practices. For instance they can procure in batches -not from a pharma company- but from underground market, some batches may turn out to be bunk, but they may still sell them anyway. So their quality fluctuates. Similar sloppy practices are also possible wrt shipping.

    I'm very inexperienced in IOPs (just one transaction so far) so take it with a grain of salt.

    FWIW I only take balanced and somewhat longer reviews into consideration, don't buy without tracking, select vendors with well defined rules and procedures (high business discipline) and try to make sure that the IOP procures from pharma companies (not from the "OEM" market).
    Since you are not very experienced i will warn you right now that many IOP's and others are selective in scamming. Most of us on here have probably been scammed at one time or another. Getting tracking is not going to protect you in my opinion. I just had a vendor that i use send with signature required for the first time because of issues with shipping during this time. No problem, don't care as long as i get the package, which i did. However, tracking does not mean you will get it, your package could get seized, you may be sent wrong tracking if your vendor is scamming, or fake info, wrong product etc etc.
    Of course checking reviews is the best way to go but you will never be guaranteed anything--this is not amazon we are talking about xo
    Helpful Mrs Parker, M77 Rated helpful
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by nobknee View Post
    I don't know that there's really any way to verify their supplier. They're all going to say they source from companies whether they do or not, and original packaging presents a number of other problems. Testing upon receipt is the only way to really know for sure.
    Besides the positive reviews, my vendor used to list the products of a certain Indian pharma company separately, which are usually lower priced than the rest. They've stricken a special deal between them, I suppose. This pharma company prints a unique serial (under a scratch-off seal) on each box, which you can cross check with their web site. So I am sure about their supplier.
    Helpful M77, kevlar Rated helpful

  6. #26
    @cherrybomb

    I do accept there are more scammers out there than not, but being "selective"... I don't know. Perhaps it could be more likely to happen in niche markets and/or controlled substances.

    Tracking per-se is not a protection, but at least I can confirm "some" package has actually been sent out if I can see it on track17.net. That soothes part of the anxiety of waiting in total darkness.

    Though they can still scam in many other ways as you say.

    xo
    Helpful M77 Rated helpful

  7. Quote Originally Posted by nobknee View Post
    I don't know that there's really any way to verify their supplier. They're all going to say they source from companies whether they do or not, and original packaging presents a number of other problems. Testing upon receipt is the only way to really know for sure.

    I've been hearing mixed things about email-only vendors. In many ways, that seems like a more secure route to go. Although I found my super-reliable vendor by simply Googling and going with the first site I hit. I was THAT naive and it actually worked out. Pure dumb luck. I would never recommend doing that. I don't necessarily see the advantage of a vendor having a website though.

    Pricing is another thing I look at. If they're way over or way under current market values, then I figure something is probably hinky.
    Wow! The luck of the Google draw! In this day and age, I'd be scared out of my boots to do that, not only because of being scammed,
    but for bringing on LE scrutiny!
    I'm feeling like the hall monitor tonight with all 3 (edit to add: now all 4) of my posts, but I'm going to say it again:
    Please, everybody, be as safe as you can! Protect yourselves and your info with all you've got and learn
    from folks who have more experience! Be safe and be well, all y'all! <3
    Last edited by Mrs Parker; 11-28-2019 at 08:15 PM.
    Helpful M77, sillypuppiez, kevlar Rated helpful
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by temmuz View Post
    @cherrybomb

    I do accept there are more scammers out there than not, but being "selective"... I don't know. Perhaps it could be more likely to happen in niche markets and/or controlled substances.

    Tracking per-se is not a protection, but at least I can confirm "some" package has actually been sent out if I can see it on track17.net. That soothes part of the anxiety of waiting in total darkness.

    Though they can still scam in many other ways as you say.

    xo
    Think of selective scammers like chaos agents- they aren't going to scam everybody, all at once because as long as they
    can keep a few positive reviews coming in it creates enough doubt in the bad reviews that people will still try them.

    It isn't about niche markets or hard to find meds, it can be about a vendor who is considering getting out of the business but
    wants to keep the cash flow coming in for a little while. Create just enough chaos and the cash will still come. Scam
    one here, one there, and you get to hang onto your product and still get the money. It's greedy, but it's also reality.
    Be safe, everyone!
    Helpful Maskell, M77, El Grandote Rated helpful
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Parker View Post
    Wow! The luck of the Google draw! In this day and age, I'd be scared out of my boots to do that, not only because of being scammed,
    but for bringing on LE scrutiny!
    It wasn't a CII or CIII substance, which I imagine is where most LE attention is focused (at least when they aren't too busy scaring the shit out of septuagenarian doctors). But I am kind of amazed I didn't get scammed.
    Helpful M77 Rated helpful
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Parker View Post
    Think of selective scammers like chaos agents- they aren't going to scam everybody, all at once because as long as they
    can keep a few positive reviews coming in it creates enough doubt in the bad reviews that people will still try them.

    It isn't about niche markets or hard to find meds, it can be about a vendor who is considering getting out of the business but
    wants to keep the cash flow coming in for a little while. Create just enough chaos and the cash will still come. Scam
    one here, one there, and you get to hang onto your product and still get the money. It's greedy, but it's also reality.
    Be safe, everyone!
    It seems like an insane business strategy. Even if they just failed to fill, say, every 25th order, regardless of who it is, just every 25th order, pocket the money and keep the goods. They would still be burning both long-term good customers, and new potential long-term customers alike. They can say "lost in the mail/it got seized," but plenty of those customers are going to take their business elsewhere. I'm going to. I'm not going to ever order again from this guy who I don't know whether he's a scammer or if my order really is taking the scenic route. From a bottom-line standpoint, pocketing my one order is a large net loss for him compared to keeping me as a customer. (This was my second order, so he knew I was at least a return customer.)

    OTOH, maybe it's more opportunistic than that. Sure, I'll take your money. Then, oops, I don't happen to have any of what you ordered. Sorry, musta got lost in transit. It's not like the customer is going to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, and so long as most orders get filled, the vendor maintains an overall good reputation. Or at least commands enough market dominance to stay in business, so long as his conscience doesn't pester him about being a sleazeball. I'm sure plenty of customers cry "missing package" to scam vendors too.

    It's quite a lesson in both the benefits and drawbacks of virtually unregulated capitalism.
    Likes Mrs Parker, M77 liked this post

  11. Quote Originally Posted by nobknee View Post
    It seems like an insane business strategy. Even if they just failed to fill, say, every 25th order, regardless of who it is, just every 25th order, pocket the money and keep the goods. They would still be burning both long-term good customers, and new potential long-term customers alike. They can say "lost in the mail/it got seized," but plenty of those customers are going to take their business elsewhere. I'm going to. I'm not going to ever order again from this guy who I don't know whether he's a scammer or if my order really is taking the scenic route. From a bottom-line standpoint, pocketing my one order is a large net loss for him compared to keeping me as a customer. (This was my second order, so he knew I was at least a return customer.)

    OTOH, maybe it's more opportunistic than that. Sure, I'll take your money. Then, oops, I don't happen to have any of what you ordered. Sorry, musta got lost in transit. It's not like the customer is going to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, and so long as most orders get filled, the vendor maintains an overall good reputation. Or at least commands enough market dominance to stay in business, so long as his conscience doesn't pester him about being a sleazeball. I'm sure plenty of customers cry "missing package" to scam vendors too.

    It's quite a lesson in both the benefits and drawbacks of virtually unregulated capitalism.
    It sounds like your standards for vendor behavior are right up there with mine. On the other end of the spectrum, there is currently a thread
    in the senior blacklist section where a vendor has been doxxing customers, sharing customer's info with other customers, sending letters
    threatening people's lives, all kinds of ugly stuff and *still* people are standing by them and saying, "Well, he's never done that to *me*
    so I'm gonna keep ordering.
    It defies logic and best safety practices imho, but I guess it's all a part of deciding what's a deal breaker and what isn't.

    Bottom line, I'm glad you are safe and had a happy ending and I wish the same for all of us.
    Helpful djrick, sillypuppiez Rated helpful
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by nobknee View Post
    It seems like an insane business strategy...
    That would have been my reaction too, before I read Mrs Parker's post. But if - as she suggested - a vendor is, "considering getting out of the business but wants to keep the cash flow coming in for a little while", then the strategy makes perfect sense if the vendor is sufficiently unscrupulous.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Parker View Post
    It sounds like your standards for vendor behavior are right up there with mine. On the other end of the spectrum, there is currently a thread
    in the senior blacklist section where a vendor has been doxxing customers, sharing customer's info with other customers, sending letters
    threatening people's lives, all kinds of ugly stuff and *still* people are standing by them and saying, "Well, he's never done that to *me*
    so I'm gonna keep ordering.
    OMG, I wonder if it's the same person! I know the vendor in my scenario is blacklisted on this site, and his critics have accused him of doxxing them, threatening them, etc. Meanwhile, his supporters have a cult-like loyalty to him. One online review site removes anything less than unequivocal praise of him, even if it wasn't criticism, just not praise either. Lesson learned: Never trust a vendor review thread with NO even mild criticism, and check multiple review threads!

    The latest twist is that a lot of recent customers are reporting seizures and LLs after extremely long wait times, so I'm starting to worry that this vendor is under scrutiny. If that's the case, hopefully he DID scam me (and there's nothing to be seized), figuring he's on his way out anyway.

    Damn...this seriously sounds like the same guy.... At least I HOPE this is rare behavior!
    Likes Mrs Parker, M77 liked this post

  14. Quote Originally Posted by nobknee View Post
    OMG, I wonder if it's the same person! I know the vendor in my scenario is blacklisted on this site, and his critics have accused him of doxxing them, threatening them, etc. Meanwhile, his supporters have a cult-like loyalty to him. One online review site removes anything less than unequivocal praise of him, even if it wasn't criticism, just not praise either. Lesson learned: Never trust a vendor review thread with NO even mild criticism, and check multiple review threads!

    The latest twist is that a lot of recent customers are reporting seizures and LLs after extremely long wait times, so I'm starting to worry that this vendor is under scrutiny. If that's the case, hopefully he DID scam me (and there's nothing to be seized), figuring he's on his way out anyway.

    Damn...this seriously sounds like the same guy.... At least I HOPE this is rare behavior!
    It wouldn't surprise me if it was the same vendor. Behavior this bad is rare; we've had some go rogue, send bad
    meds, keep payments without sending product, even be threatening, but this one has really gone to the hilt in all of those ways and more, and that's
    the part that's rare.
    Be as safe as you can be, always, and that's the best any of us can do.
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  15. After reading some of your experiences, I’m feeling extremely lucky. I’ve recently decided to wean off meds and I can’t say what I’m learning about the current state of things is making me second-guess my decision. I was lucky enough to have a solid source for a long stretch, and while I’ve heard other people say they were left hanging when he dropped off the earth a few weeks ago, I actually had my order show up. No tracking was ever sent and it had been about a week since he’d last responded to email. I came home from work and there it was. It even included what I’d been shorted in my previous order. That was before Thanksgiving and he’s still MIA. Like I said, I feel very lucky. I also feel very ready to move forward without finding a new vendor. In the last six months, I’ve had two dependable vendors pull this disappearing act. I’m tired of all the anxiety surrounding each order, and that would be tenfold with a new vendor.
    Helpful snappy711 Rated helpful
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  16. #36
    @creewillow
    I wish you good luck. That is clearly the best strategy, in this warped reality real all live in. I am pretty lucky that I have a pain management doctor, but he is insisting on a slow taper.

    My GP has told me, that he can not afford to lose his license, and that is the threat. Fortunately, he will still give me half the strength, and a lesser amount of my other medication. But not every month. So that will end, sooner, or later as well.

    With all the pressure on doctors, even the ones that will document their file and cover themselves, and still will help you, are not prepared to go long term. I don’t understand how, if you can prove that you used your medication responsibly, for years, they don’t back off on the pressure.

    I had a doctor, that actually used to tell me “I went to medical school, these guys didn’t. I will prescribe whatever I deem medically necessary.” So of course, he retired! Sadly, that old school mentality is gone.

    I’m sure all the politicians, that want to control our lives, get concierge service, from their in house pharmacy, and in house physicians. Not a chance they don’t get whatever they ask for.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by M77 View Post
    @creewillow
    I wish you good luck. That is clearly the best strategy, in this warped reality real all live in. I am pretty lucky that I have a pain management doctor, but he is insisting on a slow taper.

    My GP has told me, that he can not afford to lose his license, and that is the threat. Fortunately, he will still give me half the strength, and a lesser amount of my other medication. But not every month. So that will end, sooner, or later as well.

    With all the pressure on doctors, even the ones that will document their file and cover themselves, and still will help you, are not prepared to go long term. I don’t understand how, if you can prove that you used your medication responsibly, for years, they don’t back off on the pressure.

    I had a doctor, that actually used to tell me “I went to medical school, these guys didn’t. I will prescribe whatever I deem medically necessary.” So of course, he retired! Sadly, that old school mentality is gone.

    I’m sure all the politicians, that want to control our lives, get concierge service, from their in house pharmacy, and in house physicians. Not a chance they don’t get whatever they ask for.
    This is SO sad... I had a friend who actually TOOK in a printout of the CDC saying they NEVER MEANT pain patients to be forcibly tapered, and they stopped tapering this woman. What really amazes me is that I know SO MANY folks who are out and out alcoholics, one who died recently. I do not know of ONE person who has died of an RX drug. I know there are many heroin addicts dying, but what does that have to do with pain meds and pain patients?

    It's so incredibly frustrating to read these stories about doctors denying patients. I feel like I'm engaging in "civil disobedience" by using IOP's myself...
    The cause of all suffering is attachment...

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by jaders View Post
    This is SO sad... I had a friend who actually TOOK in a printout of the CDC saying they NEVER MEANT pain patients to be forcibly tapered, and they stopped tapering this woman. What really amazes me is that I know SO MANY folks who are out and out alcoholics, one who died recently. I do not know of ONE person who has died of an RX drug. I know there are many heroin addicts dying, but what does that have to do with pain meds and pain patients?

    It's so incredibly frustrating to read these stories about doctors denying patients. I feel like I'm engaging in "civil disobedience" by using IOP's myself...
    @jaders
    This is what happens when politics and medical care get intertwined. They are literally scaring doctors under duress of losing their licenses. If I spent all those years, and money, going to medical school, I would not dream of losing my license. So, the people with legitimate issues suffer for the past sins of big pharma, which was regulated by the same people screaming about the “crisis.” Maybe just the people that became billionaires, legally pushing Oxy, should be banned from pk’s. Oh wait, they are all cashing in on selling Norcan.
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaders View Post
    This is SO sad... I had a friend who actually TOOK in a printout of the CDC saying they NEVER MEANT pain patients to be forcibly tapered, and they stopped tapering this woman. What really amazes me is that I know SO MANY folks who are out and out alcoholics, one who died recently. I do not know of ONE person who has died of an RX drug. I know there are many heroin addicts dying, but what does that have to do with pain meds and pain patients?

    It's so incredibly frustrating to read these stories about doctors denying patients. I feel like I'm engaging in "civil disobedience" by using IOP's myself...
    @jaders, around here (just outside of Appalachia) there are oh, so many folks who spent much of their lives working in abominable conditions (like coal miners, for example), developed serious health consequences, got opiates from their physicians to deal with their pain, and now the past couple of years of US policy re. opiates = they're addicted to their meds, they're in pain, and their Dr.s have cut them off from the meds to avoid dealing with the "new" gov't policies... so these folks either suffer in pain (and way too many of them are taking their own lives, recently) or they turn to street drugs - a lot of these people don't even have internet access, FFS, so they don't even know there are other (possible) options!! (Of course, these same folks are pretty unsophisticated, and would never consider ordering medicine from The Internet, OMG!)

    Plus there are a lot of older military vets who rely on the VA for their healthcare, and the VA has also moved towards a "zero opiates" policy... My 81 y.o. neighbor has ruptured discs in his back, his Dr. wouldn't even prescribe hydro for him for pain flareups, in case he "became an addict!" (Of course, multiple surgeries were a-okay with them, ugh.)

    I see a lot of these folks, every day, who are just trying to have a halfway decent life, and it's is a huge issue for them. (Personally, I'd like everyone in Congress [and the White House] staff to be prohibited from having access to the same medications they've pushed prescribers to deny to their patients; I'd bet within 6 months, the policy makers in D.C. would change their opinions! JMO, of course.)


  20. #40
    @calgal99
    Well said. They don’t care about veterans, people with chronic pain, etc. They love the failed “war on drugs,” and they care about the political talking point of the “opiate crisis.” Should a teenager with oral surgery, get a month of scheduled 2 pk’s, with refills? Of course not. Maybe codeine, and then ibuprofen, or acetaminophen.

    But, taking people with chronic pain, that will stay the same, or get worse, and can have a better quality of life, with the appropriate medication, should be left the F alone! Your example of herniation of the spine, which results in severe local pain, and usually impingement of the spinal canal, gets worse, and worse. Of course there is “fusion surgery,” which is very likely to have severe consequences, and is completely irreversible, that is all fine and perfectly acceptable. Surgery is getting more advanced, as we all know, but a neurologist, that I trust, said it is crazy, and the until they perfect it, it is not worth the risk.

    Back quickly to the crisis de jour, they created the crisis, and as you mentioned, they cut off legitimate patients, who have no choice to suffer, or try to go on the streets. Rather than give these legitimate patients are carefully considered regimen of pk’s, they will send them out with few choices. It is pretty sad what many on here are forced to choose with. Anyone is one tablet away from an overdose of fent. The people that turn to the streets, are at an even higher risk of playing Russian Roulette with their lives. These morons created the crisis, and while there is some pushback, it will take a miracle to turn things around.

    Interestingly, Andrew Yang is saying that personal consumption of opiates should be legal. Others have mentioned this on here, but I heard him say it on the news. This position has been a libertarian position for a long time, but the media is is starving him of proper coverage, because he strays from the elite views of both parties. We are in for a long, and rocky road.
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