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Thread: Kratom - here we go again

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    Default Kratom - here we go again

    Apparently a number of stores in Ohio were busted just before Thanksgiving. Shaking my head because it's not that they were selling Kratom but that packaging or other advertising seemed to imply that you could actually ingest the product...no really. This is from a longer HuffPost article but gives the basic reasoning. Is it any wonder that people have so little regard for our drug laws?


    All of the kratom businesses hit last week were found to be in violation of state law, said Mark Bruce, a spokesman for the Ohio Department of Agriculture, which supervised the raids. In Ohio, any product that does not have a “generally recognized as safe” approval from the FDA can’t be sold or marketed for human consumption in a food or drug, Bruce explained.
    “If a business is selling kratom and their packaging or website or marketing materials associated with it indicate or infer that it’s to be ingested by humans, we consider that to be an adulterated product,” he said.
    Selling kratom in a pill or capsule form or in an edible such as a brownie or candy ? all of which are clearly designed for people to consume ? would therefore not be acceptable. It can be sold as a powder.
    State law also prohibits retailers from making unproved claims about the medical benefits of products like kratom, said Terri Gerhardt, chief of Ohio’s Division of Food Safety. Sellers can’t tell customers that kratom is a treatment for opioid addiction or a natural painkiller, for example.


    [B]An investigation revealed that all of the targeted stores were breaking some or all of those rules, said Gerhardt, adding that the probe had stemmed from a complaint by a local health department regarding practices at a handful of the shops.
    “We have a statutory responsibility to look into complaints when they come to our attention,” she said.
    But Gerhardt insisted that just because these kratom vendors had run afoul of the law didn’t mean they were being shut down for good. In fact, she said, retailers could still sell kratom so long as they adjusted their packaging, marketing materials and product offerings to make sure there is no implication that the kratom they carry is actually meant to be consumed.[B]
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  3. #2
    This makes no sense because so many herbal supplements that you can even buy at Walmart say "this product has not been evaluated by the FDA" or something like that.
    Watch leaf of faith and the grandfather clause that allows products to be sold in potentially unsafe ways but are exempt.
    The whole kratom bashing has gotten ridiculous. I always said as soon as gas stations and head shops started selling it, it would be trouble
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  4. #3
    Oh dear. Another unpatentable plant is scaring the daylights out of the pharmaceutical companies that make high-priced opioids, and the religious nuts who think that anything that makes a person's life easier is somehow unholy. I hate those folks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teresita View Post
    This makes no sense because so many herbal supplements that you can even buy at Walmart say "this product has not been evaluated by the FDA" or something like that.
    Watch leaf of faith and the grandfather clause that allows products to be sold in potentially unsafe ways but are exempt.
    The whole kratom bashing has gotten ridiculous. I always said as soon as gas stations and head shops started selling it, it would be trouble
    @teresita...I was trying to figure out how this is any different than the 4 aisles at CVS with supplements for everything. They're in capsules of pill form, have as you've mentioned, a disclaimer that it's not been evaluated, and I'm assuming people know the capsules are meant to be swallowed and not held under your armpit!
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  6. #5
    @Bawston did they list the businesses that they busted? This is getting to be a bit to crazy. I have purchased both the powder and capsule in a very nice local smoke shop in a high end neighborhood. The powder was what I bought initially to try and decided to try the capsule because I knew I would never drink the powder (I don’t take liquid meds well) and anyone who has tried just swallowing the powder knows that is very unpleasant. This “policing” has to stop!

  7. #6
    I just looked at the packaging and it says “not for use for those under 18” & list the ingredients, it also has a supplement facts with dosage info. It is on a sticker label which could be changed or another sticker added that says “not for human consumption”. So the package would suggest it could be ingested, not necessarily by humans. This is ridiculous! I haven’t been back to the store for a couple of months because I still have plenty & for whatever reason I haven’t taken them and forgot I had them. I am just completely disgusted, this is completely unreasonable.
    Last edited by Peaceful Rose; 12-08-2018 at 03:33 PM. Reason: Adding a comment

  8. #7
    This is my last comment, I promise. Hey Ohio instead of trying to bust vendors for legal kratom for wording on a package, how about you focus on the thousands of rape kits that have been sitting in police stations and not being processed since 2011!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW4210 View Post
    This is my last comment, I promise. Hey Ohio instead of trying to bust vendors for legal kratom for wording on a package, how about you focus on the thousands of rape kits that have been sitting in police stations and not being processed since 2011!
    Oh, but that would actually HELP someone, (and especially women) so that's not high on the list...
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  10. #9
    Only about 1/3 of the rapists have been identified through DNA according to the report and some victims want it dropped. I wonder why? I would probably think twice about opening up a wound that deep after years of dealing with it while my kit sat somewhere. In my opinion I would rather have 1/3 of the offenders off the streets and possibly victimizing other people.

    Instead of creating an issue with Kratom how about just telling vendors “add a sticker to the label that says not for human consumption” if it means that much to them. Just my opinion, I think buyers can figure it out. The store I went to was so helpful and I was treated respectfully. It is in a safe area without any drama. Why is that such a problem? Like I said just my 2cents, but maybe I am not as smart as politicians and LE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DW4210 View Post
    @Bawston did they list the businesses that they busted? This is getting to be a bit to crazy. I have purchased both the powder and capsule in a very nice local smoke shop in a high end neighborhood. The powder was what I bought initially to try and decided to try the capsule because I knew I would never drink the powder (I don’t take liquid meds well) and anyone who has tried just swallowing the powder knows that is very unpleasant. This “policing” has to stop!
    @DW4210... I don't know that it listed the businesses that got busted. I agree with you totally that slapping a sticker on it would take care of ant little legal technicalities they come up with.

    It's pretty annoying when you see resources being wasted on things that aren't hurting anyone while bigger problems just get ignored. It's the same thing here with doctors and pain patients being harassed while they KNOW there's an illegal fentanyl factory operating out of Lawrence MA. But those guys are scary and doctors and patients are easy.
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  12. #11
    I completely agree, resources, time and tax payers money are being wasted in many cases on small businesses that are not dangerous to our neighborhoods. It is a real shame when I think about crimes with real victims compared to victimless “crimes” that are easily resolved with a change in wording or a sticker. How about take the time they are wasting, send out a letter with the information that is so important to change on Kratom packages to the businesses and use the rest of the resources to execute warrants for crimes against children, the elderly and if that isn’t enough just a blanket title of crimes against citizens and animals. (I cannot stand animal abuse.). I am not going to understand their priorities in these situations. If a living breathing human or animal is victimized that is a priority over a wording issue, the real kicker is I would venture to say that most if not all Kratom vendors would comply and correct the problem. I can’t say the same for those who victimized the helpless or weak. Again just my opinion and frustration.

  13. yes, but, kraton has led to 90 deaths, according to USA Today. 90 deaths over all time, vs. 100,00 alcohol-related deaths PER YEAR. Think there's an agenda here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenThumb View Post
    yes, but, kraton has led to 90 deaths, according to USA Today. 90 deaths over all time, vs. 100,00 alcohol-related deaths PER YEAR. Think there's an agenda here?
    There're probably more aspirin-related deaths than kratom...
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenThumb View Post
    yes, but, kraton has led to 90 deaths, according to USA Today. 90 deaths over all time, vs. 100,00 alcohol-related deaths PER YEAR. Think there's an agenda here?
    @GreenThumb...alas, of those 90, only 7 deaths had kratom as the only substance found at the autopsy. That also doesn't account for perhaps other medical issues such as heart problems, high blood pressure, etc etc etc...

    Also, an interesting article:

    http://speciosa.org/new-kratom-death...-than-answers/
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    I'm having a hard time understanding the kratom article on USA Today saying kratom is the next legal killer and blah blah blah. I have never taken it. I don't know where to buy it. From what I learn on line it is a great way to help with withdrawal and calms the user to help sleep. It's basically sleepytime tea. The article even claimed there were only 90 deaths related to it last year. Is that a lot from a drug? I'm so lost on Kratom I really want to just try it and see who is right, the users or the accusers. (Never meant for that to rhyme, sorry)

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    The Netflix documentary that @jaders mentioned really is worth watching, A Leaf of Faith. 90 kratom deaths does not match up well at all with the data I've been familiar with. I'd favor a death toll closer to zero at this point, not having devoted a lot of time to researching the issue.

    I take kratom at least once a week and I can tell you for sure that it is stronger than Sleepy Time Tea. Clear your schedule for the rest of the evening when you try it. For me, a little goes a long way and many people I know feel the same way about it. I'm satisfied that it's safe and effective for many conditions but easily overdone and in my case, it tends to reduce productivity.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by Peaceful Rose View Post
    This is my last comment, I promise. Hey Ohio instead of trying to bust vendors for legal kratom for wording on a package, how about you focus on the thousands of rape kits that have been sitting in police stations and not being processed since 2011!
    Amen!!!!


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    Of those 90 deaths, I'm sure a toxicoley test would find lethal doses of other substances just like the kid in Florida last year. They bashed kratom as the killer but a few weeks later it was disclosed that he had herion, fentanyl and amphetamines in his system. Nonetheless, his mother is at war trying to ban kratom, she succeeded with Sarasota county in Florida. I do feel bad for her tragic loss but cmon focus on the real killers circulating on the street
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    Quote Originally Posted by teresita View Post
    Of those 90 deaths, I'm sure a toxicoley test would find lethal doses of other substances just like the kid in Florida last year. They bashed kratom as the killer but a few weeks later it was disclosed that he had herion, fentanyl and amphetamines in his system. Nonetheless, his mother is at war trying to ban kratom, she succeeded with Sarasota county in Florida. I do feel bad for her tragic loss but cmon focus on the real killers circulating on the street
    @teresita...exactly! That's what the article mentioned too...of those 90 or so deaths, krafom was the only "substance" found which means it could have been anything they took or the total combination. Not only that but if I'm walking down the street and get hit by a car and have Kratom in my system, is that the CAUSE of death?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peaceful Rose View Post
    @Bawston did they list the businesses that they busted? This is getting to be a bit to crazy. I have purchased both the powder and capsule in a very nice local smoke shop in a high end neighborhood. The powder was what I bought initially to try and decided to try the capsule because I knew I would never drink the powder (I don’t take liquid meds well) and anyone who has tried just swallowing the powder knows that is very unpleasant. This “policing” has to stop!
    @Peaceful Rose. I like your name, it evokes good feelings. I used to use Kratom when it was available at online merchants. There are certain strains of the
    Kratom plant that allows one to feel calm and some that are uplifting/energetic. Now that it is so hard to get, I pretty much gave up on it. I tried some from a head shop
    recently and found it lacking any effects whatsoever. I truly believe there are therapeutic qualities in Kratom and that people should be able access it freely.
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  22. Kratom - here we go again
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