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Thread: Codeine vs Tramadol vs Effexor. Which is safest for anxiety and depression?

  1. Default Codeine vs Tramadol vs Effexor. Which is safest for anxiety and depression?

    The only one of these that I've taken before is Tramadol. I took it daily for only a week, and I remember that week being a very happy one indeed. From what I've read on these forums it seems that tramadol is both an opoid (like codeine) and a ssni (like effexor). I would really like to take it again except for fear of how addictive it is and how excruciating the withdrawal is.

    If I did choose to try tramadol again, perhaps 100mg every other day would be a good, safe way to go about dosing.

    Anyways, I just want something that will ease my anxiety and slight paranoia. Something that will make me feel slightly euphoric and sociable. Something that will make me care less about the trifling insecurities of my life. And I want it to be safe to take for years if necessary.

    Which of these three (or any others you think I should research and talk to a doctor about) would be the safest and most effective of giving me a sense of well-being?

    Thanks! Love this community by the way, very supportive.
    Last edited by bigyellowjoint; 05-08-2012 at 02:43 PM.
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    Tramadol is the only one that worked for me. I was on it for over 4 years.

    300mg. day

    Just got off it a week and a half ago. and I miss it. Really helped with depression. and I tried everything.
    Wellbutrin helps but it doesn't do anything for pain

    *This post was auto-merged. The following text was added 15 minutes after the last post:*

    I was put on Butrans (Buprenorphine) patches for pain.

    I can take a low dose of hydro 10mg. or something close to that.

    Anything else and it will throw me into withdrawal because BUPRENORPHINE is the same drug as Subtex and Suboxtone that people take to get off opiates.

    I must say it is not doing anything for my pain. but they have me on a low dose till my body is clear of all the other pain pills I have in my body.

    They are going to raise the dose on my patch tomorrow. I am not very confident that it is going to be strong enough.

    You can go up to 300 mg and not have really bad withdrawls. It is the people that abuse it and take 5-600 mg that you start getting into problems.

    I have went several days and not taken my tramadol, and nothing happened.

    of course your mileage may vary.

    If you are used to taking pain meds, the tramadol might not even work at all for you.

    It is a very mild feeling of well being. It is not something that you are going to take and go whoa. usually you take it with a combo of other meds.
    Last edited by LSUCAJUNTIGER; 05-08-2012 at 02:45 PM.
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  4. Tramadol.

    Problem is that doctors are unlikely to prescribe Tramadol as an anti-depressant. Believe me, I tried. But it is readily available from a lot of US OPs via overnight.

    I have read nightmares about Effexor WD and side effects. Just read the forums "Surviving Antidepressants" and "Crazy Meds.us".

    Regarding codeine, tolerance is a factor and I would think that getting a script with enough pills to work on a theraputic level would be difficult.

    There are other drugs out there, Cymbalta, Pristiq, Neorontin, Lyrica that maybe worth researching.
    Last edited by File Error 500; 05-08-2012 at 03:24 PM.

  5. @LSUCAJUNTIGER I've never taken pain medications for longer than a week, so my tolerance is pretty pretty close to nil. I want to keep the dose of whatever medication I start to take as low as I can so as to not become completely dependent upon it for happiness. Someone on erowid said that 100-200 mg or tramadol every other day did the trick for him and he weights about 40 lbs more than I do.

    "very mild feeling of well being" sounds good! sounds like I can still be in control yet have a more optimistic edge.

    Thanks for replying.

    *This post was auto-merged. The following text was added 2 minutes after the last post:*

    Quote Originally Posted by Aven View Post
    Tramadol.

    Problem is that doctors are unlikely to prescribe Tramadol as an anti-depressant. Believe me, I tried. But it is readily available from a lot of US OPs via overnight.

    I have read nightmares about Effexor WD and side effects. Just read the forums "Surviving Antidepressants" and "Crazy Meds.us".
    Effexor was the one I was least excited about giving a try. After taking a look at those two forums, looks like it's a sure no-go.
    Last edited by bigyellowjoint; 05-08-2012 at 02:55 PM.
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    If you have any risk factor for latent bipolar disorder, stay the hell away from Effexor. I tried that garbage because it seemed an innocent enough antidepressant and it was the doctor's first choice, but I became so manic I still can't believe half of what happened was real. My uncle's bipolar disorder was unmasked by Effexor also.

    Using it for simple anxiety is insane, especially since anxiety disorders and soft bipolarity have some correlation. It should be a second or third line drug for severe unipolar depression, nothing else.

    Instead of Effexor, a simple SSRI like Zoloft, Celexa, or Lexapro might if you want to avoid benzos. Definitely less risky than Effexor.

    Codeine will of course get rid of your anxiety and depression until the tolerance sets in, then you increase the dose. Many people do this; If you don't mind the stigma of being called a drug abuser, it's what many people do.

    Tramadol could work, I find it kind of stimulating though. YMMV.
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    Quote Originally Posted by audacity View Post
    If you have any risk factor for latent bipolar disorder, stay the hell away from Effexor. I tried that garbage because it seemed an innocent enough antidepressant and it was the doctor's first choice, but I became so manic I still can't believe half of what happened was real. My uncle's bipolar disorder was unmasked by Effexor also.

    Using it for simple anxiety is insane, especially since anxiety disorders and soft bipolarity have some correlation. It should be a second or third line drug for severe unipolar depression, nothing else.

    Instead of Effexor, a simple SSRI like Zoloft, Celexa, or Lexapro might if you want to avoid benzos. Definitely less risky than Effexor.

    Codeine will of course get rid of your anxiety and depression until the tolerance sets in, then you increase the dose. Many people do this; If you don't mind the stigma of being called a drug abuser, it's what many people do.

    Tramadol could work, I find it kind of stimulating though. YMMV.
    Effexor caused projectile sweating, overheating...terrible withdrawls...last I heard..they were taking it aoff the market///

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman View Post
    Effexor caused projectile sweating, overheating...terrible withdrawls...last I heard..they were taking it aoff the market///

    Gman
    There is currently a lawsuit in federal court accusing Wyeth of patent manipulation regarding EffexorXR.
    However, I have not seen anything about removing Effexor from the US market. Where did you hear this information?

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    I wouldn't use any opoid or tramadol for anxiety and depression, I don't see anything good coming from that and its starting down a road u might not wanna go.
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    i read somewhere about tram being prescribed to treat mild depression...
    i like tram SR in doses of 100-200 mgs.. ( also 60 mg of codeine added is nice too ) and i find it does give me a nice little pick me up if ive got things to do i dont wanna do... down it with a nice big cup of coffee and away you go.
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    To the thread starter: A full opioid agonist albeit weak, a peculiar opiate which also has its effects at treating depression (not licensed for that I believe) and all the way SSRI. You're asking the million dollar question. Definitely seek for professional advice.

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    I don’t even want to waste time reading Tramadol Vs Effexor for Anxiety, but if you are Takibg Tramadol for Axietybyou are doing it AGAINST EVERY NORMAL HUMAN BEING ADVICE! Not a single doctor will approve Trams NRI effect as a long term medication for depression o anxiety. There are benzos antihistamines and for youNIT MAY WORSEN THINGS, please be cautious. They created Doxepine that can actually do the trick but SNRI will ONLY CAUSE ANXIETY NOT HELP IT IN ANY WAY SO NO

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    None of these are particularly good choices for anxiety. Codeine & Tramadol are opiates with nasty side effects, addiction and abuse potential. Effexor as previously stated is an SNRI, which tends to be activating and may make things worse. Plus, it's horrible to discontinue if it doesn't work. Buspar is a fairly low risk option, and SSRIs might also be worth a shot. If you're receptive to nootropics, low dose Memantine might also be something worth exploring.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommygun View Post
    Are you a qualified doctor? @Skiff
    No he is not.
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  16. #15
    As the Plays-One-on-TV guy says, "IT AGAINST EVERY NORMAL HUMAN BEING ADVICE!", roflma

    It's a complicated subject, but understanding the impacts of each drug on the CNS (brain and spinal chord) receptors gives some insight.

    Opioids have high affinity for the mu, kappa, and delta CNS receptors (drugs are active at a particular receptor are referred to as "agonists"). Mu receptors are responsible for pain relief, respiratory depression, sedation, and euphoria. Delta receptors produce analgesia, prevent dopamine reuptake (thus increasing dopamine levels), and will interact with mu receptors. Kappa receptors also produce analgesia. Codeine hits mu, delta, and kappa receptors but has less binding affinity (meaning it is a weaker agonist) to these receptors than stronger opiates like morphine.

    Tramadol, on the other hand, and it's metabolite M1, are active at the mu receptor only, but at a lower level than an opiates. Tramadol also acts as a serotonin and norepinephrine (SNRI) reuptake inhibitor, which accounts for that "lift" that one gets from it, in addition to relief of pain.

    Effexor, like tramadol, is an SNRI but does not hit the mu receptor, as does tramadol.

    Benzos are GABA receptors agonists, GABA receptors mediate anxiety. Neither codeine nor tramadol directly bind to the GABA receptors, but do potentiate (increase the agonist effect) of benzos, when taken with benzos. The reverse is also true, with benzos also potentiating the impact of opiates at the delta and kappa receptors.

    So, in short..

    Codeine, morphine---> active at mu, delta, kappa receptors
    Tramadol-----> active at mu receptors, with SNRI effects
    Effexor-------> SNRI
    Benzos------> active at GABA receptors, potentiates opiates at delta, kappa receptors

    Based on this, I would not rely on any of the first 3 for alleviation of anxiety. Also, my personal experience seems to back up the theory, as my GAD and panic attacks will occur even after taking opiates, but mitigated and often stopped entirely with a benzo.

    I'll post more later about partial agonists (buprenorphine, etc.), mixed agonists, and antagonists (naloxone, naltrexone), maybe even roll this into sticky for harm reduction purposes. It worries me to see people using different classes of drugs but not understanding the impact of this. I think most OD's are more the result of potentiation of different classes of drugs, as opposed to simply taking too much of any one drug.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenThumb View Post
    As the Plays-One-on-TV guy says, "IT AGAINST EVERY NORMAL HUMAN BEING ADVICE!", roflma

    It's a complicated subject, but understanding the impacts of each drug on the CNS (brain and spinal chord) receptors gives some insight.

    Opioids have high affinity for the mu, kappa, and delta CNS receptors (drugs are active at a particular receptor are referred to as "agonists"). Mu receptors are responsible for pain relief, respiratory depression, sedation, and euphoria. Delta receptors produce analgesia, prevent dopamine reuptake (thus increasing dopamine levels), and will interact with mu receptors. Kappa receptors also produce analgesia. Codeine hits mu, delta, and kappa receptors but has less binding affinity (meaning it is a weaker agonist) to these receptors than stronger opiates like morphine.

    Tramadol, on the other hand, and it's metabolite M1, are active at the mu receptor only, but at a lower level than an opiates. Tramadol also acts as a serotonin and norepinephrine (SNRI) reuptake inhibitor, which accounts for that "lift" that one gets from it, in addition to relief of pain.

    Effexor, like tramadol, is an SNRI but does not hit the mu receptor, as does tramadol.

    Benzos are GABA receptors agonists, GABA receptors mediate anxiety. Neither codeine nor tramadol directly bind to the GABA receptors, but do potentiate (increase the agonist effect) of benzos, when taken with benzos. The reverse is also true, with benzos also potentiating the impact of opiates at the delta and kappa receptors.

    So, in short..

    Codeine, morphine---> active at mu, delta, kappa receptors
    Tramadol-----> active at mu receptors, with SNRI effects
    Effexor-------> SNRI
    Benzos------> active at GABA receptors, potentiates opiates at delta, kappa receptors

    Based on this, I would not rely on any of the first 3 for alleviation of anxiety. Also, my personal experience seems to back up the theory, as my GAD and panic attacks will occur even after taking opiates, but mitigated and often stopped entirely with a benzo.

    I'll post more later about partial agonists (buprenorphine, etc.), mixed agonists, and antagonists (naloxone, naltrexone), maybe even roll this into sticky for harm reduction purposes. It worries me to see people using different classes of drugs but not understanding the impact of this. I think most OD's are more the result of potentiation of different classes of drugs, as opposed to simply taking too much of any one drug.
    Gee whiz - VERY well explained! I hear those terms thrown around and now they make much better sense. Would love to hear more about the partial ones. Please create that sticky!!
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  18. #17
    ....OK, @jaders, you asked for it......

    ...so, for those not already bored to tears, here's the rest of the story.

    For an opioid to be a full agonist at a given receptor, it has to stimulate the receptor by binding to it and then releasing itself immediately. An opioid that binds to the receptor site and stays there is a partial agonist. Buprenorphine, for example, is a partial agonist at the mu-receptor. The way to think about this: a full agonist can bind and release from a receptor, stimulating it each time it does this. But, a partial agonist will bind to a receptor and stimulate it only once, for as long as it hangs on to the receptor, thus limiting its effect.

    As an aside, a partial agonist attaches to the receptor the same way a full agonist does, it just has a lower tendency to attach in the first place.

    Next, an antagonist is a drug that binds to a receptor but does not stimulate it. Antagonists can irreversible or reversible. An irreversible antagonist will bind to the receptor permanently and not stimulate it. Such receptors become essentially useless until they die off (internalize) and get replaced with new receptors. Irreversible opioid antagonists are bad stuff.

    Reversible antagonists can either be non-competitive or competitive. Like irreversible antagonists, non-competitive antagonists bind to the receptor and do not stimulate it. But, unlike irreversible antagonists, the non-competitive antagonist will release from the receptor after some amount of time (the dissociative half life). During the time that a non-competitive antagonist binds to the receptor, it completely blocks the ability of an agonist to bind to and stimulate that same receptor. However, if the brain is flooded with enough agonists at the same time a non-competitive antagonist is present, some of the effects of the antagonist can be reversed, since the agonists will attach to some of the receptors before the antagonist can get there. This is why people on suboxone or other such drugs will sometimes attempt to "break through" the subox with a high dose of an opiate. However, doing the reverse is a very bad idea, because those opiate receptors that are normally saturated with agonists in opiate dependent people will get quickly replaced with the antagonist and that creates a world of hurt (this is usually called "precipitated withdrawal").

    Lastly, competitive antagonists, unlike non-competitive receptors, do not exclusively bind to, and block stimulation of the receptors. Instead, they compete with agonists at the receptor site and prevent the agonist from binding to, and stimulating the receptor. Thus, unlike non-competitive antagonists, a large offsetting dose of an agonist will quickly displace the competitive antagonist and reverse its effects.

    I can follow this up later with example of each type of antagonist drug, although most of you are probably familiar with the more common ones, like Naloxone and Naltrexone.
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    Like the one guy said Tram 100mg every other day or 50mg daily. Although even at those low doses you will build up tolerance so don’t quit cold turkey EVER but take fewer a week for a few weeks then go back so you will continue to see results. Whatever you do don’t up dosages to get effect.

  20. Codeine vs Tramadol vs Effexor.  Which is safest for anxiety and depression?

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