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Thread: Etizolam

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethom View Post
    Tried again and still nothing. I have various brands and trust the vendor...I am officially giving up on this stuff
    It's a very strange molecule. Doesn't do much for me either. Last week, I did try a new recipe. I took 2 MD (sublingual, supposedly fast acting -effect in 20 min) 1 mg. I added a controlled release tablet, hoping that if the fast acting ones took effect, the controlled release one might work on their trail till morning. It wasn't working.

    So, after over an hour of rolling over and over, I took a tablet of sublingual 1.5 mg melatonin. Fifteen minutes later, I was sound asleep. But the next morning, I kept on having this dream that I was waking-up, that I HAD to wake-up, but always ended-up in an different dream were I was desperately trying to wake-up. I'm sure we've all had this type of dreams without the help of any type of medication, "natural" or chemical. But I assure you, this experience was almost terrifying.

    When I finally managed to open my eyes for real, before panic set in, I got out of bed without feeling too wobbly and by the time I came down to the kitchen for coffee and a kiss from my love, I felt perfectly rested. No after effect. But I'm telling you : I'll NEVER mix Etizolam with anything ever again.

    Now, I have a question for those of you who are better educated in these matters than I am. I can think of @M77, @h2oshed64, @alumni, @Romanov , I'm sure there are many others, as I remember reading posts from PhD candidates.

    I find that with any type of sleeping aid I take, it never takes effect the same way. I do vary the family of drugs or supplements I take: never the same twice in a row. Yet, some times, I have to increase the usual dosage by 50%; others, it will take effect very fast; others, it will take forever; sometimes, I push it along with something else of a mild sort. (Yeah... you just read how that worked with Etizolam).

    I would have thought that Etizolam was in a way kin to triazolam. I don't know if it is on the molecule drawing board, but in my body, they wouldn't recognize each other if they shared a neuron!

    I usually eat around 8 p.m. and I'm pretty consistent about going to bed at 9 p.m. I know, I know, I sound boring, but that's the only way I survive. So, I go to bed on an almost full stomach and yes, I sleep better that way. Most nights, but not all, I will have some wine with dinner and/or even an aperitif before! Of course, I have to stay away from certain foods that I have a hard time digesting. When I give in anyway, the problem with falling asleep has nothing to do with my chronic insomnia, it's acid reflux.

    Apart from those episodes, I have not found a link between the amount of food or alcohol I've had for dinner and the effectiveness or non-effectiveness of the sleeping pills I take.

    With Etizolam, would you say it should be dissolved in a hot tea? More effective taken on an empty stomach?

    Some PRers' find it really works for them, others, like ethom and I, find it more or less useless.

    Doesn't everybody's liver metabolize Etizolam the same way?

    Do you have any idea of where the blockage occurs? Blood brain barrier?

    No research I found on the web gave me any useful information.

    I should do like ethom, and give-up on the stuff, but damn it, I gotten quite a quantity and would hate to write off the expense without first getting some enlightened opinions.

    Take care,

    ST
    Helpful M77, windowpane Rated helpful
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  2. #22
    @SoTired
    I think you're problem is etizolam just isn't much of a hypnotic. At those doses you would expect relief from GAD or possibly a panic attack (if you're lucky), but it sure isnt going to knock you out.
    I have a weird feeling from etiz, like its almost "speedy". Not a good sleep aid for me either.
    Have you tried soma? Now thats what I would choose for intermittent insomnia. Nice, relaxing, head hanging nod IME.
    Not saying you should take soma, btw, just what I grab when I want to take it down a notch or 3.
    Helpful SoTired, M77, windowpane Rated helpful
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  3. #23
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    Thank you @opiatesandchopin,

    No, I've never tried soma. I have been prescribed Flexeril (cyclobenzapine) on a few occasions to treat musculo-skeletal problems. I tried it twice. I found it did not do much to ease the pain and it made me groggy for over 48 hours. The vials are still full and sitting in the dark of my closet.

    A bit a research tells me that meprobamate, a metabolite of soma, has a 10 hour half-life. Not as bad as the Flexeril.

    More and more doctors, well the ones who really understand how crippling insomnia can be, recommend mixing very low doses of a longer acting anxiolytic, such as clonazepam, and a tricyclic, such as doxepin. There are different "recipes" which are successful for some, and don't work for others. The reasoning is that short acting hypnotics apparently do not let one fall into the restorative, deep sleep cycle. It's not my experience, but then, I am not a case study all on my own.

    But in that context, where a medication with a softer and longer impact could help getting a more restful sleep, your suggestion of soma certainly makes sense. After the Holidays, I'll look around for a supplier and maybe get a small order to give it a try.

    On an other subject, I didn't know Chopin had composed musical works for guitar??

    Take care.

    ST
    Helpful M77, windowpane Rated helpful
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  4. #24
    @SoTired Sadly, Chopin never wrote a single note for guitar, but that doesn't stop us from arranging his works for guitar. Sometimes his pieces can sound like they were even written for the guitar, others sometimes not so much...
    Yes I would give soma a try. Keep in mind it can be addictive to some, others say its not at all. Looking at the proof that it is a prodrug of meprobamate makes me think it is absolutely addictive. I am new to it (besides having as a kid which I barely remeber) but find myself wanting to take it every evening, even though Im currently on ridiculously high doses of benzos. Along with the opioid buprenorphine. I learned the other day this combination is called the "holy trinity". Haha.
    But seriously, dont try this at home kids.
    Helpful M77 Rated helpful
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  5. #25
    Hi @SoTired , back home in my clinical practice I rarely prescribed etizolam, for exactly the reasons you describe. It can have very inconsistent results with some patients. That said a lot of patients can and do derive benefit from it. The bad news for you is if you are having mixed results with it now at therapeutic doses, then in my experience it will always be that way for you. It’s similar to phenazepam in this regard ... in that, at therapeutic doses it can be unpredictable. And increasing the dose is extremely dangerous. If you are having better more consistent results with other benzodiazepines and z-drugs for sleep then u would stick with them. It’s hard to know precisely what advice to give without knowing someone’s medical status quo, in terms of meds, dose and regime. But if youhave any follow up medical questions I’ll do my very best to answer them as fully as possible.

    Dobre
    Rom
    Helpful M77, SoTired, windowpane Rated helpful

  6. #26
    @SoTired
    I would do anything to sleep by 9:00 PM. I usually can’t, even if I had 2 hours of sleep, the night before. I don’t think @Romanov is wrong about the effects of Etiz varying with different people, but part of the problem might also be caused by not getting exactly what you ordered. Hopefully you received blistered tabs. I know there are three main types, but even a blister, with a hologram, is not conclusive that it is not counterfeit. I personally have not tried Etiz, not for any reason other then I haven’t had the chance. It is interesting that some members find it having a short half-life, causes the need for more dosing. I would agree, that if it wears off very quickly, that would only help people that have trouble falling asleep, but not staying asleep.

    I used to be prescribed Triazolam, and it has a 2-4 hour half-life. It always put me right to sleep, but at that point in my life, that was all I needed to sleep through the night. Now, I have trouble falling asleep, and staying asleep. I pretty much know why, but that doesn’t solve the problem. Last night, I used an old prescription hypnotic, that isn’t even prescribed anymore in the States. It still is available, but nobody prescribes it. It is in the Z class. I feel asleep, and was up in 4 hours. I tried like heck to fall back asleep, but just gave up. I don’t worry about it being old, as I think it still works as good as it did. I also have old Ambien CR, which my doctor won’t give me, because of the paperwork, but as I have mentioned in other posts, he will give me regular Ambien 10mg. I save the CR for when I really need to sleep, and it usually helps.

    I have a suggestion. See if your doctor will give you Tizanadine. It is a non controlled muscle relaxant. I actually asked my doctor to switch it out, because I couldn’t take it during the day. I actually could take it, but I wasn’t comfortable driving with it. It did make me sleepy, but that won’t work for me now. Also, as suggested by another member, Soma will make you drowsy. It is also a muscle relaxant, but it is scheduled, but very low, like C5, or C4. I know you are up north, and I don’t think it is hard to get prescribed. Should I find the magic elixir for sleep, I will certainly let everyone know.
    Helpful SoTired, ludwig1961, windowpane Rated helpful
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  7. #27
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    Dear @M77 and dear @Romanov,

    I read your advice very carefully.

    I'll make just a little adjustment : I do go in my bedroom to settle for the night at 9 p.m. as a question of sticking to a routine. My hubby gets up around 5:30 a.m. Thus, it suits us both better if we go to bed at the same time. He gets to sleep really fast and gets good restorative sleep.

    When he is asleep, I choose to go in my own bed, otherwise, all my tossing, turning, reading... will ruin his night. There is no point for me to going to bed later, hoping I will finally feel sleepy. My system just goes on overdrive and it's worse.

    I try, I really try, like so many other members here, to help myself in other ways than with pills. I even bought "NASA" sleep promoting light bulbs. Each costs more than a nice lamp.

    We had a businesses Christmas party last night. It was a nice event, but braking my routine just makes finding sleep more difficult.

    @Romanov, thank you for having had the generosity of reading me really attentively. You are right, use of Etizolam is not properly documented and testing different dosages all on my own can be dangerous. @M77 About the Etizolam I bought : yes it was in blister packs, I thourougly trust the vendor. I went as far as googling the phama that made it in India. Everything seemed legit.

    Z and benzo

    I possibly have found a new source for triazolam, if it works out, I'll share it.

    I am prescribed the Canadian version of zolpidem, which comes only in sublingual tablets called Sublinox. It's so short acting! I wish an extended release version was made available by Health Canada.


    Muscle relaxants ans Soma

    I am prescribed a muscle relaxant called Norflex / orphenadrine. I don't find a soporific effect with it, so when I need to take it because the inflammation in my joints becomes unbearable, I take in during the day time. I have a prescription, but it is available over the counter. I don't know if it is similar to Tizanadin.

    Robaxen / METHOCARBAMOL is also available without prescription, directly on the shelves. This one, I will take at night if muscle spasms make me want to scream. It does make me groggy, but not enough to put me to sleep.

    About the Soma, I'd rather buy a very small quantity before and see how it works for me. Any changes on my list of prescriptions makes my Dr. feel a bit insecure and I swear that the pharmacist scrutinizes the new prescriptions with an electron microscope. If my Dr. prescribes soma, he will have to stop prescribing my orphenadrine and he will insist that I give the soma at least a three month try and that I report back to him.

    Please do understand that I'm not complaining about my Dr. acting professionally and genuinely caring about me. I just think there is no harm in doing my share ahead of time and knowing if a drug has positive effects, or if the unwanted side-effects outweigh the benefits.



    I'm afflicted with a syndrome called ME - I don't what to get into its details - and my fellow sufferers all have major problems in getting regenerative sleep, if any sleep at all. I subscribe to a blog on which all the latest research, theories, diagnosis etc. are published weekly. It's called Health Rising.

    Many ME patients have been to sleep clinics and some found some help. That's where I read about anxiolytics, tricyclics and/or other medications, mixed appropriately and in very low doses can have a very positive action on chronic insomnia.
    I was formally diagnosed in 2004 by a rheumatologist, at a big teaching hospital, who put me through nuclear testing, confirmed a diagnosis of ME, gave me some Ritalin to keep me awake,told me that was all he could do for me and out the door I was!! Obviously, he preferred his patients with rheumatoid arthritis.

    New "ME specialists" have appeared in my area and my family doctor could certainly refer me. For a number of reasons, I'm really hesitant. I'm now 15 years older, I have less energy then ever, and dragging myself through hospitals, nuclear testing, sleep clinics, rheumatologists, neurologists, immunologists... would do absolutely nothing to improve my current quality of life. By the time they find the proper regimen to help me, if ever they do, I will be so old that it would be very hard to differentiate between the weakness brought on by ME or that brought on, quite naturally, by old age.

    So M77 and Romanov, you two sages on PR, I will take your advice. Next February, I will to for my routine blood tests, get an appointment with my family doctor and discuss new options.

    Every time I came in to discuss a new medication or a new mix of medications, I was always prepared with monographs and university research abstracts, properly highlighted. He appreciated that and we can discuss the opportunity of trying this or changing that...

    But, in the meantime, I have to dig myself out of the mountains of paper work I have accumulated.

    Thanks again, you two and, Take care

    ST
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  8. #28
    @SoTired
    I’m glad you did get blisters, from a trusted source. It is clear that most medications have different effects on different people, but Etiz seems like the most likely to have major differences with different people. I think many of the reports, on this forum, can be attributed to different sourcing. Some US generics don’t match up with US brands, as it is, but then add in generics from Asia, etc., and that is the main reason people find India sourced meds weaker than domestic brands. I think most North American brands are from the same factories, while EU, and Asian meds are usually licensed out to other manufacturers. I know many people think that Indian meds are weaker, while I think that can be true, there is also a powerful placebo effect too. Manufacturers will focus group the color of tablets and capsules, just to see the difference in people’s minds, which there are stark differences. I do think Etiz is an exception to this. Way too many people either love it, or hate it. I used to think that the reason it is not patented in the US was because it had to much market exposure as a research chemical, but these companies don’t leave money on the table, so perhaps it was tested, and the results varied too much, from person to person. Of course this is just a guess. Some people take half a dose, as it knocks them out, and others find no effect. I wish I could give my experience, but as I mentioned, I have not had the chance to try it.

    I know how debilitating lack of sleep can be. I am running on fumes myself, at the moment. If I tried to get a little sleep during the day, I wouldn’t have a chance of sleeping tonight, so I fuel up with caffeine, to get by. I regret not using my better choice last night, but I try to not use anything, if I can, and if I can’t, I take the weakest hypnotic I have, unless it is imperative that I sleep, for work. Even then, it is no guarantee that anything will work.

    When I switched of off Tizanadine, I went to Methocarbamol myself. I didn’t find it that effective, but I have felt that way with other similar meds, and when I discontinued them, I was surprised how much they do work. They do not make me drowsy at all, but I get the same feeling you do. When I stay up later than I want to, it becomes progressively harder to sleep.

    Thank you for the nice things you said. I hope we all find some respite from these sleep problems. I wish that was the only thing I had to deal with, but I guess we all have to make the best of the cards we are dealt.
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  9. @SoTired, I never realized the issues you are up

    against. I may have to take you on as a patient......

    But seriously for insomnia anyway I don't think

    it would hurt to try the antihistamine Phenergan.

    I know I have mentioned this before in other

    threads but I'm not just a spokesman I'm also

    a client......if I have the need to take

    anything to feel sleepy, two 25mg tabs put

    me out in no time. It works for me. But I

    don't have hardcore insomnia like you and

    others. This is all I need. Also when I have

    any soma on hand a tab of soma with the

    Phenergan inreases the affect. But thats

    just me. I can't recommend mixing meds.
    Helpful M77, mani, ludwig1961 Rated helpful

  10. #30
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    I find etz very effective. Found a place that does 2mg tabs and they are as good as any Benzo. Good for anxiety and sleep. Hard to get good quality ones. As good as 1mg Xanax imo!
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  11. #31

    Default Etiz Brands

    I think we might need a seperate thread just focused on etizolam brands, because as someone said, they are not all good quality. Youre almost better of buying pure powder if you know what youre doing. Even then, no telling if its really pure.
    Etizest 1 sucks.
    Etilaam 1 is good. Its from Intas Pharma and i trust them.
    Etinax 3mg suck, taste bad and i doubt they contain more than 1 mg.
    Etiduo 2mg
    Etivan 2mg
    Etisafe 3mg These 3 are all the same pill in same packaging (panda bear doing dab dance) with tiny prints of the dif brand names. I believe theyre all the same pills from the same place. That being said, they are my favorite.
    I trust etilaam from Intas most. If they make 2 or 3 mg someone please let me know.
    I take a lot of etizolam, what most would say is ridiculous dosages. After doing several different potent RCs for a while, my tolerance may be forever heightened.
    Mods or higher ranking members, let me know if I should start an etizolam brand thread please. I think it would help thin out the bad ones.
    Helpful tycho Rated helpful
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by opiatesandchopin View Post
    I think we might need a seperate thread just focused on etizolam brands, because as someone said, they are not all good quality. Youre almost better of buying pure powder if you know what youre doing. Even then, no telling if its really pure.
    Etizest 1 sucks.
    Etilaam 1 is good. Its from Intas Pharma and i trust them.
    Etinax 3mg suck, taste bad and i doubt they contain more than 1 mg.
    Etiduo 2mg
    Etivan 2mg
    Etisafe 3mg These 3 are all the same pill in same packaging (panda bear doing dab dance) with tiny prints of the dif brand names. I believe theyre all the same pills from the same place. That being said, they are my favorite.
    I trust etilaam from Intas most. If they make 2 or 3 mg someone please let me know.
    I take a lot of etizolam, what most would say is ridiculous dosages. After doing several different potent RCs for a while, my tolerance may be forever heightened.
    Mods or higher ranking members, let me know if I should start an etizolam brand thread please. I think it would help thin out the bad ones.
    It kinda seems like you have done all the research and provided the relevant info in that one post.

    Yes, it might be interesting to split this post off to give folks a place to plug-in additional variants; comment on the qualities/value of particular brands from particular sources, etc.
    Likes opiatesandchopin liked this post

  13. #33
    Yeah, what do yall mods think? New thread for "etizolam brands" or .... take over this thread?? Srry
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