Adult Son Denied Analgesic - Mocked by Dentist at Hospital's Clinic for Extraction/Absess

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ladyhurting

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Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Posts
592
Hi everyone.

My son is grown with his maturity level at a high level. Responsible. Does not consume alcohol (has no "taste" for it, same like myself). Was denied Tylenol #4 for painful extraction of molar (infected) with infection. This was in a NYC borough where MMJ has been available within state. But my son is not MMJ person like my late spouse.

Cannabis is not analgesic. If my son has my DNA genetic pattern, it is very likely that his physiology needs a higher level of codeine phosphate. Or whatever. So, we talked about the human Trigeminal Nerve "network" and its sensitivity. My son listened (thank God).

But my son has my DNA. He suffers from unexpected migraine headaches. And cervicogenic headaches.

So, last three days my son has been consuming ice cream (soft cold dairy food). There is a dissolvable stitch. He cannot chew without pain post-procedure. And his jaw area hurts from the extraction (bone pain can be the worst). They pushed Rx Ibuprofen on him 600mg. When I learned of this post-procedure after he got "home", I became angered at the CDC Mythology and the BS punishing real post-op patients.

My son's Prescription Monitoring database Profile is Empty. Nothing. This "punishment" for a CDC poorly executed "suggestion" really hit home - and hard! My own son is now a victim of the Opiate Mythology. Not even a phone call to his GP to address follow-up of his infection healing. I am angry. Yes, he and I are both adults....but I do not want my son to suffer needlessly. No caring parent would want to watch on.

For a procedure such as abscess, drainage of "pus" (dead white blood cells, etc.) and an extraction..... NSAID medication should not be forced on a patient.

I know firsthand: developed a bleeding esophagus and duodenal ulcer with extreme pain as my time release opiate Rx was decreased. It was hell. I live in fear of my body - especially the cervicogenic pain. About three months ago, my Rx regime was not working. I began taking 325mg aspirin tablets now and then. Not supposed to. But my blood pressure goes sky-high in its elevation when my acute pain episodes are wretchedly awful. So bad, I do not shower until everything subsides. Acupuncture is not affordable until I return to work (at $90 USD per 60 minute treatment it becomes a decision to eat healthy? Or manage my pain).

If my son and I were in the UK? We could walk into Boots Pharmacy to get a Pharmacist package of Tylenol with 10mg of codeine phosphate without any shame, without any suffering. Not quite sure about France, but Boots Pharmacy in UK? You bet! The Boots pharmacy counter would yell out "Panadol" or similar to the Registered Pharmacist on duty.

Back in January 2015 I remember writing about the hell my late husband went through to obtain Diagnosis and Treatment plan (including Rx meds) for a lumbar herniated disk. We made a trip from the NYC metro area southbound to Baltimore MD where late husband's GP physician ordered the MRI of lower spine and had no problem setting Rx with 5 refills of Tramadol 50mg tablets (this was after Tramadol was set as controlled - post August 2014).

Several of us @Mecha, @Paichka, @grannyof2boys, @H20shed65, @Mrs Parker, @M77 and @Bawston wrote detailed posts about this unjust issue: Denial of Analgesic meds to alleviate acute pain. Or watching this torture of untreated acute post-op pain inflicted on a loved one. Darn! I remember @HarryIrene coping with this nonsense as a patient circa 2014 along with his undertreated pain.

The AMA spoke out against denial of analgesic Rx meds to alleviate acute pain plus post-op, the AMA spoke against the CDC philosophy. AMA scientifically stated on 90MME that "One Size does not fit All".

When our taxpayer funded CDC screamed Opioid Crisis in 2015, I remember former President Barak Obama speaking out IN FAVOR to protect Rx opiate care plans for patients suffering with intractable non-cancer pain. Former President Obama gave a live television conference in the evening and its message made the rounds. Forgive me, but it was before September 2015.

Intractable pain is part of the Social Security Disability Blue Book index, plus other things like herniated disk, spinal stenosis, cervicogenic syndrome, migraine (with or without aura), CPRS, phantom limb pain....there are many justifiable Dx ICD codes which can be PERMANENT in our human anatomy. Bone pain can be the worst! Especially

MMJ has its benefits. But MMJ cannot be used in a hospital's clinical setting as formal treatment plan. Why? It goes State by State. Plus, MMJ is Schedule 1: no hospital would permit its use. Maybe I am incorrect saying this.....but MMJ is not "official" within a hospital's pain standard of care

As a taxpayer, and protective parent who wants the BEST for my grown son, and being a Voter THIS ENTIRE FORCING OF NSAID Rx as a "solution" for my son's acute post-procedure pain made me lose trust in our medical system.

My son's GP should have been called. My son is "clean and sober".
 
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jaders

Eminent member
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Posts
1,952
Hi everyone.

My son is grown with his maturity level at a high level. Responsible. Does not consume alcohol (has no "taste" for it, same like myself). Was denied Tylenol #4 for painful extraction of molar (infected) with infection. This was in a NYC borough where MMJ has been available within state. But my son is not MMJ person like my late spouse.

Cannabis is not analgesic. If my son has my DNA genetic pattern, it is very likely that his physiology needs a higher level of codeine phosphate. Or whatever. So, we talked about the human Trigeminal Nerve "network" and its sensitivity. My son listened (thank God).

But my son has my DNA. He suffers from unexpected migraine headaches. And cervicogenic headaches.

So, last three days my son has been consuming ice cream (soft cold dairy food). There is a dissolvable stitch. He cannot chew without pain post-procedure. And his jaw area hurts from the extraction (bone pain can be the worst). They pushed Rx Ibuprofen on him 600mg. When I learned of this post-procedure after he got "home", I became angered at the CDC Mythology and the BS punishing real post-op patients.

My son's Prescription Monitoring database Profile is Empty. Nothing. This "punishment" for a CDC poorly executed "suggestion" really hit home - and hard! My own son is now a victim of the Opiate Mythology. Not even a phone call to his GP to address follow-up of his infection healing. I am angry. Yes, he and I are both adults....but I do not want my son to suffer needlessly. No caring parent would want to watch on.

For a procedure such as abscess, drainage of "pus" (dead white blood cells, etc.) and an extraction..... NSAID medication should not be forced on a patient.

I know firsthand: developed a bleeding esophagus and duodenal ulcer with extreme pain as my time release opiate Rx was decreased. It was hell. I live in fear of my body - especially the cervicogenic pain. About three months ago, my Rx regime was not working. I began taking 325mg aspirin tablets now and then. Not supposed to. But my blood pressure goes sky-high in its elevation when my acute pain episodes are wretchedly awful. So bad, I do not shower until everything subsides. Acupuncture is not affordable until I return to work (at $90 USD per 60 minute treatment it becomes a decision to eat healthy? Or manage my pain).

If my son and I were in the UK? We could walk into Boots Pharmacy to get a Pharmacist package of Tylenol with 10mg of codeine phosphate without any shame, without any suffering. Not quite sure about France, but Boots Pharmacy in UK? You bet! The Boots pharmacy counter would yell out "Panadol" or similar to the Registered Pharmacist on duty.

Back in January 2015 I remember writing about the hell my late husband went through to obtain Diagnosis and Treatment plan (including Rx meds) for a lumbar herniated disk. We made a trip from the NYC metro area southbound to Baltimore MD where late husband's GP physician ordered the MRI of lower spine and had no problem setting Rx with 5 refills of Tramadol 50mg tablets (this was after Tramadol was set as controlled - post August 2014).

Several of us @Mecha, @Paichka, @grannyof2boys, @H20shed65, @Mrs Parker, @M77 and @Bawston wrote detailed posts about this unjust issue: Denial of Analgesic meds to alleviate acute pain. Or watching this torture of untreated acute post-op pain inflicted on a loved one. Darn! I remember @HarryIrene coping with this nonsense as a patient circa 2014 along with his undertreated pain.

The AMA spoke out against denial of analgesic Rx meds to alleviate acute pain plus post-op, the AMA spoke against the CDC philosophy. AMA scientifically stated on 90MME that "One Size does not fit All".

When our taxpayer funded CDC screamed Opioid Crisis in 2015, I remember former President Barak Obama speaking out IN FAVOR to protect Rx opiate care plans for patients suffering with intractable non-cancer pain. Former President Obama gave a live television conference in the evening and its message made the rounds. Forgive me, but it was before September 2015.

Intractable pain is part of the Social Security Disability Blue Book index, plus other things like herniated disk, spinal stenosis, cervicogenic syndrome, migraine (with or without aura), CPRS, phantom limb pain....there are many justifiable Dx ICD codes which can be PERMANENT in our human anatomy. Bone pain can be the worst! Especially

MMJ has its benefits. But MMJ cannot be used in a hospital's clinical setting as formal treatment plan. Why? It goes State by State. Plus, MMJ is Schedule 1: no hospital would permit its use. Maybe I am incorrect saying this.....but MMJ is not "official" within a hospital's pain standard of care

As a taxpayer, and protective parent who wants the BEST for my grown son, and being a Voter THIS ENTIRE FORCING OF NSAID Rx as a "solution" for my son's acute post-procedure pain made me lose trust in our medical system.

My son's GP should have been called. My son is "clean and sober".

Sadly, you're speaking to the choir here. We ALL know what a complete load of BS is being passed out to patients along with non-treatment for pain. I know of 2 people who recently had tooth extractions and both were given the same as your son. RX Ibuprofen. It is SO ridiculous and enraging. I remember getting 10 norco for an extraction about 6 years ago without a problem.

I suggest you make a comment here to let the "powers that be" know what's REALLY going on: https://beta.regulations.gov/docume...98PDW7a-5YogLdzwQsnxCuwbTcE4PE5Z310SUtW0Pqw74
 
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M77

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Jul 23, 2011
Posts
3,475
Meanwhile, while I’m on a stupid forced taper, solely to meet CDC guidelines, my daughter had a wisdom tooth extracted, and they gave her 15 Percocets! She never took one, never wanted one, and while she was in pain, but was happy with ibuprofen! Meanwhile, she just spilled them into the toilet! I know you aren’t supposed to do that, but she didn’t know. I was a little pissed, because I could have used them. :(

I only mention it, because it is not only ridiculous, it is totally inconsistent. Maybe if we lived in different states, it would make sense, but we don’t.
 
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grannyof2boys

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Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Posts
1,882
@ladyhurting ...I am so sorry you and your son are going through this. Everything you write is the absolute truth, sad as that is.

We are being held captive by our own government in all matters of choice, including life or death.

I truly wonder what is to become of us. Humans first, then list whatever country a person is from.

Making people fearful is where the government and those top-ranking officials are doing the most damage.

People who are fearful, in unrelieved pain, have worries about food, money, the *what next* syndrome... make decisions based on what they fear. Not always the best decisions long-term for sure.

I hope you get some help for yourself and your son, as far as pain relief goes.

Msg me anytime... I am a good listener :heart:
 

Mrs Parker

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Joined
May 9, 2012
Posts
4,131
Oh @ladyhurting, my heart hurts for you and your son. I'm so sorry you're both having to go through this. It's not fair and it's not right.

I wish I knew what advice to offer- watching our children (no matter what age) suffer needlessly is beyond words, beyond anger, beyond awful.
I'm surprised that the dentist didn't give your son a course of antibiotics to take the infection down before going in to do surgery. That alone seems
like a questionable practice, but I don't know as much about dental practices as I should.

Denying pain medication post-op is unforgivable imo. I know dentists and doctors have been more strict about Rx-ing, but I would urge
you to find a different dentist for you both if you can. Unfortunately, that doesn't help him much in the immediate with pain. If it was me with an
adult child, I'd look into ordering something to address the pain from a trusted US vendor. There are still a few around who, although a bit pricey,
can still deliver quickly and discretely.
::Hugs of support::
 

Seychelle

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Joined
Feb 24, 2020
Posts
674
Sadly, you're speaking to the choir here. We ALL know what a complete load of BS is being passed out to patients along with non-treatment for pain. I know of 2 people who recently had tooth extractions and both were given the same as your son. RX Ibuprofen. It is SO ridiculous and enraging. I remember getting 10 norco for an extraction about 6 years ago without a problem.

I suggest you make a comment here to let the "powers that be" know what's REALLY going on: https://beta.regulations.gov/docume...98PDW7a-5YogLdzwQsnxCuwbTcE4PE5Z310SUtW0Pqw74

Wishing I could bring Nixon back to life; show him the result of his Illegal enterprise, mainly the DEA
 

Doc Rogue

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Mar 14, 2018
Posts
466
Meanwhile, while I’m on a stupid forced taper, solely to meet CDC guidelines, my daughter had a wisdom tooth extracted, and they gave her 15 Percocets! She never took one, never wanted one, and while she was in pain, but was happy with ibuprofen! Meanwhile, she just spilled them into the toilet! I know you aren’t supposed to do that, but she didn’t know. I was a little pissed, because I could have used them. :(

I only mention it, because it is not only ridiculous, it is totally inconsistent. Maybe if we lived in different states, it would make sense, but we don’t.

My son has juvenile arthritis, and ended up having to have knee surgery a couple years back @11yo.
Doc gave him 20 7.5 hydros.
Of course I waited until he was completely healed, ended up only taking 3 1/2 tabs at a time the first 2 days. Didn’t flush them, but packed them away with my other stashed items. I would’ve been ticked if anyone had flushed perfectly good meds down the drain lol. Although 7.5’s wouldn’t touch my pain levels and tolerance, maybe 8-10. I’m saving them in case any of my boys or wife would need anything down the road and not get prescribed any meds for pain. Speaking of, my wife (46yo) of 24 years has never once touched a single narcotic. Oh how I wish I could say the same. Amazes me sometimes how much she fights for me with the pain doc to make sure I get adequate pain med coverage. Don’t know what I’d do without her. That’s a fact.
Sorry to OP your son could t get meds to cover his pain. Some states are DEFINITELY tighter than others. I happen to live in one not so affected as much by the crackdown, for what it’s worth.
 
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Seychelle

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Feb 24, 2020
Posts
674
My son has juvenile arthritis, and ended up having to have knee surgery a couple years back @11yo.
Doc gave him 20 7.5 hydros.
Of course I waited until he was completely healed, ended up only taking 3 1/2 tabs at a time the first 2 days. Didn’t flush them, but packed them away with my other stashed items. I would’ve been ticked if anyone had flushed perfectly good meds down the drain lol. Although 7.5’s wouldn’t touch my pain levels and tolerance, maybe 8-10. I’m saving them in case any of my boys or wife would need anything down the road and not get prescribed any meds for pain. Speaking of, my wife (46yo) of 24 years has never once touched a single narcotic. Oh how I wish I could say the same. Amazes me sometimes how much she fights for me with the pain doc to make sure I get adequate pain med coverage. Don’t know what I’d do without her. That’s a fact.
Sorry to OP your son could t get meds to cover his pain. Some states are DEFINITELY tighter than others. I happen to live in one not so affected as much by the crackdown, for what it’s worth.

Hi @Doc Rogue
Juvenile (anything) is heartbreaking. Wishing the best for your son and all member's kids
 

M77

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Jul 23, 2011
Posts
3,475
My son has juvenile arthritis, and ended up having to have knee surgery a couple years back @11yo.
Doc gave him 20 7.5 hydros.
Of course I waited until he was completely healed, ended up only taking 3 1/2 tabs at a time the first 2 days. Didn’t flush them, but packed them away with my other stashed items. I would’ve been ticked if anyone had flushed perfectly good meds down the drain lol. Although 7.5’s wouldn’t touch my pain levels and tolerance, maybe 8-10. I’m saving them in case any of my boys or wife would need anything down the road and not get prescribed any meds for pain. Speaking of, my wife (46yo) of 24 years has never once touched a single narcotic. Oh how I wish I could say the same. Amazes me sometimes how much she fights for me with the pain doc to make sure I get adequate pain med coverage. Don’t know what I’d do without her. That’s a fact.
Sorry to OP your son could t get meds to cover his pain. Some states are DEFINITELY tighter than others. I happen to live in one not so affected as much by the crackdown, for what it’s worth.
@Doc Rogue
I hope your son is doing well. My comment about “I could have used them,” was tongue in cheek, as they say. Without recounting the whole story, as most of my friends on here know, I had a jacka$$ doctor that refused to give me my decades long, normal dose of of IR Oxy, for use as needed. My GP said his office was no longer writing any controlled substances, so I was in a jam. So, as I posted numerous times, I had to choose between 80mg x 3 a day, or nothing. I went on the high dose begrudgingly. I brought this up because of exactly what you mentioned. A 5mg Perc would work less than an aspirin, because I am immune to Tylenol. Not that I’m immune from it wrecking havoc on my organs, but it offers me no relief from pain, fever, or anything else. Here’s the interesting thing. After I changed doctors, and voluntarily went down to 10mg IR, x 3, I don’t think it’s tolerance. I think my receptors are shot. Like you, I’m not looking for any type of euphoria. I’m just looking for some relief, after working 12 hours, including driving in traffic (pre-lockdown).

Being immobilized in my car, is almost as hard on me, as anything else I can think of. My car has a pretty awesome adjustable lumbar support, and if it didn’t, it would be worse, but I could be in a $3,000 shiatsu recliner, with heat, and vibration, and my back would still hurt. I’ve tried. I’m actually researching the use of opioid antagonists, not for detox, but to try and reset my receptors. I need to do more to see if it would even work, and I would have to be careful not to throw myself into full blown withdrawal, but as my pain goes up, and my forced taper continues, I have to figure out something. I have a little bit of a window, as my current doc gave me a break, from the taper, for the lockdown. But that is about to end. I can’t say what I’d like to do to the jerk that had me on 240mg a day, when 20-30mg was fine. Now I’m looking down the barrel of going down to under 2 10mgs a day, which used to be fine, but now does nothing. If anyone has any experience with resetting, I would love to hear about it.
 

Doc Rogue

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Mar 14, 2018
Posts
466
Hi @Doc Rogue
Juvenile (anything) is heartbreaking. Wishing the best for your son and all member's kids

Thank you for that. It breaks my heart, the one thing I’ve always wanted more than anything is that none of my kids would ever have to deal with the pain that I’ve had to endure all these years.
He First noticed it when he was 10, when he’d come home from school and lay on the couch because he’d say his back hurts. He’s on Peroxicam right now, and so far it’s been enough to keep the pain mostly at bay.
I only hope in time they come up with something non-narcotic to keep the pain away by the time he gets older and it gets worse, as It did throughout my early 20’s. No I’m 47 and can look back over the last 20 years and all the money I wasted on doc visits over the years, and how my tolerance grew taking narcs all those years. It’s no life at all, and just a dead end road.
 

Doc Rogue

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Mar 14, 2018
Posts
466
@Doc Rogue
Being immobilized in my car, is almost as hard on me, as anything else I can think of. My car has a pretty awesome adjustable lumbar support, and if it didn’t, it would be worse, but I could be in a $3,000 shiatsu recliner, with heat, and vibration, and my back would still hurt. I’ve tried. I’m actually researching the use of opioid antagonists, not for detox, but to try and reset my receptors. I need to do more to see if it would even work, and I would have to be careful not to throw myself into full blown withdrawal, but as my pain goes up, and my forced taper continues, I have to figure out something. I have a little bit of a window, as my current doc gave me a break, from the taper, for the lockdown. But that is about to end. I can’t say what I’d like to do to the jerk that had me on 240mg a day, when 20-30mg was fine. Now I’m looking down the barrel of going down to under 2 10mgs a day, which used to be fine, but now does nothing. If anyone has any experience with resetting, I would love to hear about it.

@M77,
I finally went on a LA med. fought it for years but am just tired of the roller coaster of pain, taking IR’s 4 x p/ day. A little relief, then 3 or so hours of pain until the next dose.
We started with morphine, didn’t do squat. Then this last month went to methadone.
Didn’t notice anything the first week, then last 3 weeks I’ve noticed my pain didn’t go over a 6.
We’re getting there. I want to bump it up another 5-10mg, and I think we’ll be close. Feels really good to be at a more even keel throughout the day. Took less of the IR rescue meds this month too: first time in forever. It just kind of caps off the pain at a certain level. Thinking a bit higher dose with lower that cap.
That’s the hope at least.
Am interested in hearing what the plan is to lower your tolerance/ resetting the receptors. Only thing I’ve read about is ketamine. What is your plan to do that?
BTW, 2 10’s wouldn’t come close to touching my pain. Guessing your in the same boat. Sorry you’re going thru that. If that’s all I got for a month, I’d probably be out of meds in around 5 days, then suffer the other 25.
 
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M77

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Jul 23, 2011
Posts
3,475
@M77,
I finally went on a LA med. fought it for years but am just tired of the roller coaster of pain, taking IR’s 4 x p/ day. A little relief, then 3 or so hours of pain until the next dose.
We started with morphine, didn’t do squat. Then this last month went to methadone.
Didn’t notice anything the first week, then last 3 weeks I’ve noticed my pain didn’t go over a 6.
We’re getting there. I want to bump it up another 5-10mg, and I think we’ll be close. Feels really good to be at a more even keel throughout the day. Took less of the IR rescue meds this month too: first time in forever. It just kind of caps off the pain at a certain level. Thinking a bit higher dose with lower that cap.
That’s the hope at least.
Am interested in hearing what the plan is to lower your tolerance/ resetting the receptors. Only thing I’ve read about is ketamine. What is your plan to do that?
BTW, 2 10’s wouldn’t come close to touching my pain. Guessing your in the same boat. Sorry you’re going thru that. If that’s all I got for a month, I’d probably be out of meds in around 5 days, then suffer the other 25.
@Doc Rogue
If I wanted relief, I would also be out in less than a week. But the thought of having nothing for the next 3 weeks is worse. When I was a teen, I might have recklessly used any resource possible, but I refuse to go to the street. I have people that rely on me, and I also value my freedom. It is crazy that I’m in this position, but so it is. If I find out anything definite on the receptors, I will let everyone know.
 

Bawston

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@ladyhurting...What a horrible experience! All pain should be treated. I’m not sure but I think some dentists have stopped renewing their certificates to prescribe opioids. I think dentists have come under the most scrutiny and seem to be singled out for some reason as being over prescribers. It’s hard to believe that someone would actually do something like deliberately break a tooth or try to fake the need for a root canal to get a few drugs...but that seems to be the perception.

As for medicinal weed, I’m in a state where it’s all totally legal and I’ve bought some to see if it might mitigate my chronic pain. As I’ve mentioned before, I don’t like the high and it’s hard to find any correct “dosage”. I’d never take it other than at bedtime and for me I certainly can’t function on it. I never felt high on my pain meds, just relief but there are too many hoops to jump through now. As for surgery, god help me if I need it because I’m not sure how I could handle post surgical pain - been there too many times to even think about it.
 

ladyhurting

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Jun 22, 2012
Posts
592
Like yourself, I never felt euphoric in using my meds.
What disturbed me? Was the mockery of the attending dentist. My son's state has been an MMJ state for awhile. Apparently, the dentist was so uninformed....that the question of MMJ card status did not arise. My son has my DNA in him. 420 is not a solution for pain. 420 helps muscle spasms, insominia....but many THC heavyweight strains are not analgesic!

As a patient who developed ulcer with severe bleeding, NSAIDs are dangerous.
Surgery? I am going to get dual citizenship. EU countries do not torture their residents. Got the research complete.

Our country has failed many patients along with caring doctors and clinicians. I am over it. Harry-Irene would agree. @Bawston, too many victims! Whether heart failure, stroke or just giving up because of untreated pain ..... the United States has failed everybody. And I blame Big Pharma.

Good luck, @Bawston if MMJ helps your pain. It did not help my late husband's pain, he still needed Rx therapy. He used edibles after 4:30PM. His dispensary was very professional - there was a Registered Pharmacist on premises all the times.
 

Bawston

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Jan 23, 2015
Posts
1,300
@ladyhurting...I haven’t bothered with the MJ in probably a year. At first I thought it was worth a try but I just can’t function on it and I’m now helping to take care of my infant grandson so I don’t need anything like that.

I miss Harry-Irene who always had interesting and supportive comments. I also really miss the days when it was relatively easy to find a doctor who understood that treating pain was important to overall health. What good does it do to force someone to try ibuprophen or Tylenol and kill their liver, kidneys, and cause stomach bleeds? Even their own product information says that it’s for MILD-Moderate pain. If they aren’t claiming that it will help severe pain then why do doctors keep pushing it?

Good for you on the dual citizenship! I tried to get my mother in law to help so that my daughter could Getz Italian citizenship but she was convinced that she wasn’t allowed to have dual. Alas she died before we could do anything and the maternal side needs to be alive to apply then pass it down to grandchildren.
 

ladyhurting

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Jun 22, 2012
Posts
592
My late husband had the MMJ card for spinal injury - it was NOT analgesic for him. But it helped him sleep..... He used edibles, plus the blessing of two physicians (Maryland and NY) who Rx'd Ambien, Tramadol and some other Rx meds for his lower L4-L5 herniated disk pain.

With having migraine and herniated disk nerve impingement Dx'd (plus supporting medical documentation) apparently I qualify for MMJ card. But MMJ is not analgesic. Plus the cost of state dispensary MMJ meds is not IRS deductible. Imitrex, my Rx pain PRN hydromorphone and Fioricet 40/325/50 tackles the job. My pain management plan also includes Elavil every night plus Baclofen 100MG PRN for spasms.

Like many of us here.....I do not like having a cervical spine injury! Migraine and Cervicogenic headache are nasty storms when they stroke me!



I sure do miss Harry Irene!!!!
 
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M77

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Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Posts
3,475
@M77,
I finally went on a LA med. fought it for years but am just tired of the roller coaster of pain, taking IR’s 4 x p/ day. A little relief, then 3 or so hours of pain until the next dose.
We started with morphine, didn’t do squat. Then this last month went to methadone.
Didn’t notice anything the first week, then last 3 weeks I’ve noticed my pain didn’t go over a 6.
We’re getting there. I want to bump it up another 5-10mg, and I think we’ll be close. Feels really good to be at a more even keel throughout the day. Took less of the IR rescue meds this month too: first time in forever. It just kind of caps off the pain at a certain level. Thinking a bit higher dose with lower that cap.
That’s the hope at least.
Am interested in hearing what the plan is to lower your tolerance/ resetting the receptors. Only thing I’ve read about is ketamine. What is your plan to do that?
BTW, 2 10’s wouldn’t come close to touching my pain. Guessing your in the same boat. Sorry you’re going thru that. If that’s all I got for a month, I’d probably be out of meds in around 5 days, then suffer the other 25.

@Doc Rogue
It is interesting the push for extended release meds. I’m glad you had some relief from them. When I was forced into the 80mgs x3 per day, they were ER. The push for them is twofold. The pharma companies get fresh patents when they release a new extended release. They even get a fresh patent when they come up with a new “tamper proof “ version of the same medication, that was already patented as extended release. Before Purdue got in big trouble for telling doctors that oxycodone was not addictive, in their ER version, OxyContin, so they got a fresh patent, and could charge over $1,000 a month for it, again! When they were accused of altering the facts, and that OxyContin was not tamper proof, because they could be crushed, and turn into high dose instant release, they unbelievably got another patent on the new formulation. This was when the imprint changed from OC to OP. The same thing happened with Opana. They were sold under patent, as an ER version, but they could be crushed, and snorted. This was causing people to literally die, because the oral bioavailability was around 40 to 50 percent. Snorted, it was over 90 percent. So drug seeking patients thought they knew their tolerance, but they were very wrong. Again, the manufacturers got a fresh patent after they came out with a crush proof ER version. I only mention this because the gov acts like they are so concerned with this stuff, and will take legitimate patients, and force their doctors to drop their dosage, as we all know. It doesn’t matter if you never abused them, if you never did anything but took them to function, go to work, etc. But they will help these multibillion dollar companies keep changing the formulation of the same medication, so they can keep charging crazy prices for the same thing. And we wonder why our healthcare system is broken.

Last point, the reason you had no relief from the morphine, is the same thing. It is very effective in a hospital, or even a medic in the military, because it works intravenously. Orally, it is close to useless. My former doctor switched me around with whatever he would get the best perks from. So he made me try Opana, and oral morphine, but a brand extended release called Kadian. It was completely useless. So while there is all of this scrutiny, I was a human lab rat, for every ER med he could profit from. Remember, all I ever wanted was a small amount of oxycodone, to use as needed. I never developed a tolerance, because I used it only 2 or 3 times a week. But that was no good. I had to go to ridiculous amounts of ER meds, 7 days a week. Again, I’m glad they worked for you. I did have relief from 240 mgs a day, because I was using way more than needed. When I tried to say I didn’t want a tolerance, nor did I want to be married to these high doses, I was shot down. No discussion, “I’m the doctor, and I will decide what’s good for you.” If I didn’t like it, he told me I could just leave the practice. Obviously this was not an option. I was fortunate enough to find a doctor that listened, and helped me get back down to acceptable doses. Just two problems; the low dosage doesn’t work anymore, and he is forced to taper me down from something that isn’t even working. There is no wonder as to why some people give up, and try to find relief on the streets. I won’t do it, for the obvious reasons, and I don’t want to experience what Price did. Black market versions of real meds, spiked with Fent. Everything the gov does is a$$ backwards. How do you punish the people that follow the rules, go to pain management, and do everything right? Just keep torturing them with forced tapers. I think they actually enjoy the statistics of people OD’ing on the streets. It makes them look like their draconian rules are helping people. They couldn’t care less if they drove them there.
 
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Doc Rogue

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Mar 14, 2018
Posts
466
I appreciate all you stated @M77.
I knew the morphine most likely wouldn’t work, but we had to go through the meds he thought would work best.
Basically, then we (wife & I) had a really good heart to heart chat over FaceTime, and really discussed what would work best. I didn’t want to try the new formula of O*xy - I read online it worked so much worse than the current formula.
And when we tried the Morph, it was such a low starter dose, it didn’t have a prayer of touching my spine pain.
Anyway, we then discussed Bupe & Methadone. We were both intrigued by the pain relief he told us it could offer, how much it helped some of his other patients, and due to having a long half life, it would help carry me thru the day.
He thought the methadone might work best. So we started at 15mg and now we are up to 25mg.
It works. Amazingly well. I haven’t taken any IR’s in 2 weeks now.
Also I’m on a different biologic, and with the two working, I’m now down to 2-3 on pain scale. Basically I haven’t felt this good in a decade.

I hope it lasts. I finally am sleeping better and feeling like my old normal self when I was younger.
I can’t believe it took this many years to figure this out. But we got there eventually.
I hear what you’re saying. Some of these docs do only prescribe what they think you need, with the perks or not, and you have no choice but to go along with it. I suppose I’m super lucky my doc will listen and let’s us have some say in what we want to try.
So the difference here compared to your experience with the LA, is that it was our decision, and not forced on me.
I hope you can get the relief you need brother. Living with the pain is so unhealthy.
Think of everything it affects in our lives; low quality sleep, mental exhaustion, not being able to deal with adversity with a clear attitude, forcing ourselves to go to family functions or grinding through the day at work. Even forcing ourselves out of bed each morning is a major struggle. It freaking sucks, and I know it shortens years off our lives.
Maybe it’s time to seek out another doc? I know how much a pain in the ass it is to do that circus.
But is it worth living with the pain, or trying to find another MD that will actually listen and help you with your pain needs?
I truly hope something comes through for you and you can finally get what you know will work best for YOU. We deserve to live as normal a life as possible, while having the required meds to make that possible. Anything less should be a criminal offense on the medical community and our docs.
*Apologies to @ladyhurting for veering off our own struggles on your thread.
 

M77

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Jul 23, 2011
Posts
3,475
@Doc Rogue
You summed that up right on target. I’m experiencing exactly what you described, but it is infuriating that there are choices that might help, but I’m not allowed any say in the matter. Believe it, or not, this doctor actually cares, but he is young and obviously takes the threats maybe just a little too seriously. If I tried another doctor, I could be back to the monthly testing. The crazy part is I don’t even have anything to worry about with the testing, I just feel it is demoralizing. After so many years of following the rules, I feel like a suspect, with monthly tests. I even know that it’s not me, it’s the money. That other doc, that twisted my arm to the high dose 0xy, did monthly UT’s that went for full blown gas chromatography testing. I have no idea how much he was in for the $3,000 plus monthly tests, but I saw on my insurance statement that he was adding a “specimen collection” fee of $240! So the nurse handed me a plastic cup, and he was already with the next patient, and he was not only charging for this, but they were paying it. No wonder he did monthly tests. I know it is irrational to be bothered by monthly testing, but it just felt like everything I did right, for years, was out the window.

The doctor I have now, despite his fear of scrutiny, actually cares, which is more than I can say for most of them. I’m really happy you are down to a 2-3 in pain. That is awesome, and that is a level that we all would celebrate. The reason it took forever for them to try methad0ne is it has a horrible reputation from its use in therapeutic treatment for nasty addictions. The fact that it works for pain is almost forgotten. I’ve seen many posts on here, with people having the same positive results as you are experiencing. If I remember correctly, the reason they use it for addiction is it supposedly blocks the receptors that H effects. So if you are an H user, you get your legit prescription, and if you use it as directed, you cannot get high from the infamous street drug. That is legitimately a great thing, if it helps people kick an addiction. But it is infrequently used for legitimate pain treatment. Absolutely f’ing ridiculous. So many people have posted on this forum how helpful it was for pain. It all makes no sense, as m0rph has a nasty rep, but they hand that out like candy. I guess that’s because you cannot abuse it without injecting it.

Anyway, I’m very happy you are doing well. You are so right, this stuff makes you feel decades older, and if there was no solution, than that’s the way it goes. I’m just incredibly frustrated that I have no say in options that might work. Simply swapping my muscle relaxant would lower my daily pain, but nope, he won’t do it. I gave up asking. If I asked him to try methad0ne, they would probably have to call an ambulance for the guy! If you saw the reaction to my asking for Soma, you would understand what I mean. At least the guy cares. For now, I have to be happy with that. Enjoy the holiday weekend!
 
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Doc Rogue

Honorable member
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Posts
466
I shouldn’t be throwing out suggestions @M77, my apologies. I know you’ve been through the gauntlet like the rest of us did trying to find a doc to treat our pain. I too remember the monthly testing, how humiliating it was, but over time they did it less and less, to the point I haven’t had one in probably 2 years now, after building a relationship with my doc and gaining his trust.
You’re right. Starting over is not the best solution. Working with the one you have is probably the best route. I just wish when I read about everyone on here that deals with the roadblocks thrown at them, that our Primary Care Docs for once would listen, & allow us a prescription that simply manages our pain. This has to change at some point, doesn’t it?

You’re right about the med; I was a bit apprehensive about starting it, having read how hard it is to taper off. But that was mostly for the addicts who were trying to break their H habits. And they are at much higher doses that are more trouble tapering from.
This is something I’ll most likely take the rest of my life. It’s the first med that I get zero negative effects from. Truthfully, I can’t tell I’m really even taking anything. I just know it keeps my pain levels under a 6 (a higher dose would lower that even more). And due to the long half-life, it’s building up more each week, and I’m getting better pain control over the last few weeks.
The biologic takes care of the rest, getting me down to tolerable levels. I’ve been on the ‘done for 8 weeks now, and it has definitely changed my life. No doubt about it.
The best part? No high, no brain fog, or any fatigue. If anything, my energy levels are returning to where I feel I should be at my age, if not even more than.
I fall asleep easier and finally feel more rested in the mornings. I’m still in a bit of disbelief that it is working this well.

At any rate, All the best M77 and everyone else, enjoy your holiday weekend! And thank you for the kind words and encouragement.
 
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