Anybody heard of d.n.p? The strongest weightloss drug that can kill you?

johnathankersis88

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I have used this before and it does work but you must be careful because it can be fatal. Its simular to clean or albuterol. Its cheap and widely used today in the body building community.
Let me know what you think.
 
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Tron28

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I've never used it, but it's well known on the bodybuilding sites I am on. Most of them don't use it though due to the undesirable side effects. Clen, Albuterol and EC Stacks are more popular. Even T3 for some although that is catabolic and doesn't spare muscle.
 

M77

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@johnathankersis88 @Tron28
I asked my GP if he would give me Testosterone, and he said yes, but only a topical gel, or a roll on for underarm use. He said he would have to do bloodwork every thirty days too. I wanted to ask both of you, would this work for gaining muscle mass, and what are they looking for in the bloodwork? Is it hard on your liver, or kidneys, or is he just looking to run up a bill. Obviously most people use various supplements to bulk up, but if you add T, or do a cycle, is there any legitimate reason for bloodwork? Is just using T enough, or is it a waste without adding anabolics for example. Is T Enanthate the real thing? That’s not the one from my doc, I don’t think. Is it possible to just use tablets, or topicals?

Thanks in advance!
 

Tron28

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@johnathankersis88 @Tron28
I asked my GP if he would give me Testosterone, and he said yes, but only a topical gel, or a roll on for underarm use. He said he would have to do bloodwork every thirty days too. I wanted to ask both of you, would this work for gaining muscle mass, and what are they looking for in the bloodwork? Is it hard on your liver, or kidneys, or is he just looking to run up a bill. Obviously most people use various supplements to bulk up, but if you add T, or do a cycle, is there any legitimate reason for bloodwork? Is just using T enough, or is it a waste without adding anabolics for example. Is T Enanthate the real thing? That’s not the one from my doc, I don’t think. Is it possible to just use tablets, or topicals?

Thanks in advance!
So there's a lot of questions in here. Let me try to answer them as best I can.

Testosterone is testosterone. The difference is in how it is delivered. There are some forms that are administered topically like the ones you listed. The issue with topical forms is that they are:

-The most expensive
-They often don't absorb evenly through your skin so you can get different doses into your bloodstream on different days.
-Topical forms aromatize (convert) into estrogen at higher rates than other delivery methods
-Most concerning is that there is a risk of transferring it through contact to the women, kids and pets in your life.

There are oral versions, but due to reasons I can't fully articulate, they make two passes through your liver when being metabolized. This causes liver damage. This issue does NOT exist with other delivery methods. But in short, males cannot take testosterone orally

So that leaves injections. They are:
-The cheapest form.
-Easy to do at home by yourself.
-Can provide very stable levels if injections are done twice a week. Some guys are ok with once a week. There are some forms (esters) that allow for even less frequent dosing but they aren't commonly used in the USA (e.g. Nebido). Esters are used to control how quickly the testosterone gets released into your bloodstream and determine the half life.
-Injectable forms aromatize less than topical forms. But estrogen should always be managed while on TRT. This is one of the reasons your doc wants you to get follow up blood work.

So I just want to clarify something. Taking testosterone doesn't "top you up". On other words it doesn't add to your current testosterone levels. Once your body "sees" that it has enough testosterone it stops making its own. So if you take exogenous testosterone, your endogenous testosterone gets switched off. That's why it is called Testosterone Replacement Therapy.

So this leads to will you add muscle mass on it? You will if your natural testosterone levels are low (hypogonadal). Going from low to normal levels will help you feel better in countless ways and add muscle mass. But if you take a TRT dose of testosterone while already having healthy natural levels you will not see any anabolic effects. You would just swap one form of deliver for another. Now running a cycle is different. Then you are going to supraphysiological levels of testosterone in your body. That's an entirely different conversation.

Blood work is necessary. As mentioned earlier you need to monitor estrogen levels - specifically estradiol. I'm not going into the whole thing, but when your body provides its own testosterone and works properly, it is able to maintain equilibrium between testosterone and estradiol. But when you start taking exogenous testosterone, that system gets "broken". If you want to know more about this read up on the Hypothalamus Pituitary Testicular Axis (HPTA).

Through blood work, docs will also want to monitor your testosterone levels to make sure it's not too high or too low. Exogenous testosterone also raises hematocrit so you want to keep an eye on that. This isn't anything to freak out about. It can be lowered by doing occasional blood donations. There is no need to monitor liver or kidney function.

I will say that monthly blood labs is too frequent once you get your protocol dialed in. There isn't one dose that works for everyone so you need to do frequent blood work in the beginning. But once you figure it out doing blood work once a year should suffice.


Testosterone Enanthate is a real thing. Enanthate is the name of the ester for that injectable form of Testosterone. But in the US, Cypionate is more commonly used.

So let me wrap up with saying that if you are hypogonadal, going on TRT will definitely help you feel better, be healthier, live longer AND add muscle mass. Especially if you clean up your diet and exercise. But if you aren't hypogonadal, you need to run a cycle to see anabolic benefits. A cycle is a whole different discussion and very complicated so please don't just start one without knowing what you are doing. That would put you on TRT for the rest of your life very fast.

I hope i covered your main questions.
 
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johnathankersis88

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No he will put you on the minimum amount of test. 200mg week. You need 500mg to really get any good gains. How old are u? Whats you goals. Look email me [email protected] I can help you.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree with him. But the topical creams suck. And I have been on track and I never see a doctor and I rarely get bloods done.
 
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M77

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@Tron28 @johnathankersis88
Thank you both for your responses. I knew this was complicated enough that I could get myself in over my head. Now I have I great idea of what I better read up on, before I end up messing things up. Very much appreciated!
 

Gullible

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There are supplements that naturally boost your test production, for example d aspartic acid which is considered quite safe if used reasonably. There are also plant versions of androgens, for example pine pollen among many others. I have heard that plant androgens do not have the same effect of lowering your endogenous test production because the body does not recognize it as testosterone, which it isn't. It does however have many of the same effects as real test does. Also the cost is way way less and you can take them orally.

I'm not saying go nuts and consume massive quantities of these things. Too much of anything is not good plus the fact you don't need that much. Yes I have experimented with the ones I mentioned also one or two others. They seem to work, not sure about the long term effects since I cut way back recently due to surgery. Do a search and make up your own mind.
 

M77

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There are supplements that naturally boost your test production, for example d aspartic acid which is considered quite safe if used reasonably. There are also plant versions of androgens, for example pine pollen among many others. I have heard that plant androgens do not have the same effect of lowering your endogenous test production because the body does not recognize it as testosterone, which it isn't. It does however have many of the same effects as real test does. Also the cost is way way less and you can take them orally.

I'm not saying go nuts and consume massive quantities of these things. Too much of anything is not good plus the fact you don't need that much. Yes I have experimented with the ones I mentioned also one or two others. They seem to work, not sure about the long term effects since I cut way back recently due to surgery. Do a search and make up your own mind.
@Gullible
Thanks! I, from force of habit, just totally dismissed those supplements. I know there are ones that might potentially work, but since they advertise them on TV so much, I just assumed they didn’t work well. I was ready to skip right to the real thing, topical, or otherwise, because I am so used to BS crap. For instance, I would love to swap out to Valerian Root, for ease in sleep. I know it helps some people, but I am cynical enough to think that maybe it’s a placebo effect, for most people. I’ll even say, in that example, it does cause some minor relaxation, but I’m wired to go with chemistry, for help with sleep. Sometimes the real thing barely works, if at all. I have that somewhat under control, but like many of us, who knows when I have might have no way to have that covered. My GP could retire tomorrow, and other sources seem to be drying up.

So with T, I’m not having any problems, but I could definitely use some extra energy, besides using too much caffeine. Plus when I have the time to devote myself, I bulk up quickly at the gym. I can’t go to the real meds for energy, because I don’t want to deal with any potential anxiety. When I was a kid, I used to get real diet pills, as did all of my friends. When we got older, and had some real cash (but still young enough to not give two $hits), I watched people spiral out of control with the infamous party powder. I was no saint, but I also observed an acquaintance party away a Corvette, over a holiday weekend. I’m sure we all have similar stories, or seen similar things, but I do believe in “better living through chemistry,” so if I’m going to start working out again, why not get better results, and have more energy, etc.

I certainly value your opinion, so if you have any brands that you think really work, I would prefer that, over sticking myself, and possibly ruin what already functions. That was literally why I asked for help. I would have taken the real thing from my doctor, but alarm bells went off when he mentioned monthly bloodwork. The guy is a nice enough person, but when I asked him to elaborate on why the bloodwork, he practically muttered under his breath. I know the guy well enough, that I know his thought process. “You asked me for this. I said yes, but you need monthly bloodwork. Now you’re going to break my balls over something YOU asked me for?” If he told me, based on a test, I think you need this, he would be much more tolerant about questions. But my idea, no discussion. LOL.
 

Doc Rogue

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Not much I can add other than I agree with OP that the topical gels absolutely did nada for me. Was on them for 3-4 months, and just gave up on it.
I did have some labs done prior and they told me my T levels were a bit low. I find lifting/ walking/ exercise in general does more for a boost in energy than the topicals ever did. But I wouldn’t mind trying a stack or some injections some day. I miss the lifting. I, like you @M77 can bulk up quite easily and much quicker than my buds I used to lift with. They all thought it was totally unfair how much I could get built. Definitely miss being cut and trimmed out.
Well
I’m super trim right now, but seriously lacking in any muscle mass. Just don’t have the time or energy right now. Maybe once we get the pain control dialed in, I’ll change that part of my life too. We’re getting there.
 

M77

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Not much I can add other than I agree with OP that the topical gels absolutely did nada for me. Was on them for 3-4 months, and just gave up on it.
I did have some labs done prior and they told me my T levels were a bit low. I find lifting/ walking/ exercise in general does more for a boost in energy than the topicals ever did. But I wouldn’t mind trying a stack or some injections some day. I miss the lifting. I, like you @M77 can bulk up quite easily and much quicker than my buds I used to lift with. They all thought it was totally unfair how much I could get built. Definitely miss being cut and trimmed out.
Well
I’m super trim right now, but seriously lacking in any muscle mass. Just don’t have the time or energy right now. Maybe once we get the pain control dialed in, I’ll change that part of my life too. We’re getting there.
@Doc Rogue
Thanks for the heads up with the topical. I think my copay would be $100, plus the copay for the monthly visit for bloodwork, yeah, I can afford it, but I can think of better things to burn my money on. You made me laugh with the gym. Same thing here. My friends actually accused me of secretly juicing! I would use the machines, and in maybe 2 or 3 months, I would work my way up to the highest settings on all of them. The leg press, with the 500 max on the bottom, and 750 on the higher foot placement, I could bench the stack. Forget 3 reps if 10, I could do as many as I wanted. Same thing with the tricep machine, shoulder press, etc. I literally had to switch to free weights, to continue, and they don’t mix with a busy schedule.

Obviously this was before I whacked out my back, but I’m sure I can hit most of them. The lockdown has me thinking about spending more time on healthy stuff. Being too busy doesn’t cut it, as we get older, as I’m sure you would agree.
 

Tron28

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Unless you are hypogonadal, testosterone is not going to give you more energy. You can run a cycle (grams of testosterone) and it will not give you more energy. It's not an amphetamine.

Testosterone is an androgenic and anabolic hormone. It will make you stronger. It will help you add muscle mass. It will help you recover faster. It will help you store more glycogen.
 
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M77

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Unless you are hypogonadal, testosterone is not going to give you more energy. You can run a cycle (grams of testosterone) and it will not give you more energy. It's not an amphetamine.

Testosterone is an androgenic and anabolic hormone. It will make you stronger. It will help you add muscle mass. It will help you recover faster. It will help you store more glycogen.
@Tron28
That was why I was a little suspicious with the supplement stuff, on TV, because they all say increased energy, so I bought into that, but was going to get the real thing. I think one of the TV ones is Total T, and the list of benefits was suspicious. If one thing could do all they say, everyone would be taking them. If I’m going to hit the gym hard, I think it is worth exploring the real thing. Thanks for telling me not to expect energy, because if I start, expecting it, I would think it wasn’t working. I want to have reasonable expectations.
 

Marcone

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I prefer herbal weight loss than drugs as they are safer. If dnp is that fatal why is still easy to buy for those who are using it? The body-building industry seems brave in promoting products from steroids to weight loss drugs even if the providers are aware of its negative side-effects.
 

Tron28

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I prefer herbal weight loss than drugs as they are safer. If dnp is that fatal why is still easy to buy for those who are using it? The body-building industry seems brave in promoting products from steroids to weight loss drugs even if the providers are aware of its negative side-effects.
I think they promote using things responsibly and understanding how they work, what they do and knowing the risks. Anything can have negative side effects. Drink too much water even and you will die.

As for herbal weight loss remedies, they aren't regulated and you often don't know what you are getting. So you could argue those are dangerous and risky too.
 

Gullible

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@Gullible
Thanks! I, from force of habit, just totally dismissed those supplements. I know there are ones that might potentially work, but since they advertise them on TV so much, I just assumed they didn’t work well. I was ready to skip right to the real thing, topical, or otherwise, because I am so used to BS crap. For instance, I would love to swap out to Valerian Root, for ease in sleep. I know it helps some people, but I am cynical enough to think that maybe it’s a placebo effect, for most people. I’ll even say, in that example, it does cause some minor relaxation, but I’m wired to go with chemistry, for help with sleep. Sometimes the real thing barely works, if at all. I have that somewhat under control, but like many of us, who knows when I have might have no way to have that covered. My GP could retire tomorrow, and other sources seem to be drying up.

So with T, I’m not having any problems, but I could definitely use some extra energy, besides using too much caffeine. Plus when I have the time to devote myself, I bulk up quickly at the gym. I can’t go to the real meds for energy, because I don’t want to deal with any potential anxiety. When I was a kid, I used to get real diet pills, as did all of my friends. When we got older, and had some real cash (but still young enough to not give two $hits), I watched people spiral out of control with the infamous party powder. I was no saint, but I also observed an acquaintance party away a Corvette, over a holiday weekend. I’m sure we all have similar stories, or seen similar things, but I do believe in “better living through chemistry,” so if I’m going to start working out again, why not get better results, and have more energy, etc.

I certainly value your opinion, so if you have any brands that you think really work, I would prefer that, over sticking myself, and possibly ruin what already functions. That was literally why I asked for help. I would have taken the real thing from my doctor, but alarm bells went off when he mentioned monthly bloodwork. The guy is a nice enough person, but when I asked him to elaborate on why the bloodwork, he practically muttered under his breath. I know the guy well enough, that I know his thought process. “You asked me for this. I said yes, but you need monthly bloodwork. Now you’re going to break my balls over something YOU asked me for?” If he told me, based on a test, I think you need this, he would be much more tolerant about questions. But my idea, no discussion. LOL.
Sorry for the long delay in replying. I just used whatever was cheap, got some or all of it from bulk supplements. The d aspartic acid seems to give some energy. Pine pollen also ramps you up and gives more interest. I too have trouble sleeping but these did not bother me at all
 

M77

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Sorry for the long delay in replying. I just used whatever was cheap, got some or all of it from bulk supplements. The d aspartic acid seems to give some energy. Pine pollen also ramps you up and gives more interest. I too have trouble sleeping but these did not bother me at all
@Gullible
Much appreciated. I wasn’t worried about any problem with sleep, from supplements, or the real thing. I was just pointing out that the safer supplements, for sleep, like valerian root, might give me a little relaxation, but sure don’t work like a real prescription hypnotic. Occasionally, even the real thing doesn’t work. So I was trying to say I didn’t think the T supplements on TV were real, but if you had a good experience, it is worth trying. Thanks again!
 
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