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Baclofen

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Chancer

Exalted member
Joined
May 25, 2012
Posts
2,730
@Robomarley1 My doc prescribed me some but it didnt help although, i have heard a few mixed results were it occasionally does help, I'm glad it wprks for you, finding something that works is a huge battle. 😊
 

Robomarley1

Senior member
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Posts
170
I was prescribed baclofen first but have now been prescribed gabapentin they both help with sleep a lot. I kind of want to ask if i can have both and rotate them for sleep. I have been given Seroquel by the same psych but am hesitant to take a antipsychotic, though once i took it in the past and i fell asleep for about 10 hours.
 

Chancer

Exalted member
Joined
May 25, 2012
Posts
2,730
@Robomarley1 We have been on a similar Journey. My Psychiatrist (old psychiatrist 🤣) tried me on anti psychs (numerous different ones), the results wers so horrific, I decided to do a research project into psychiatry and the drugs they use.

My medical records in the psychiatrists office now say 'Patient is very well informed'..... its not meant as a complement. 😂🤣
Patented meds make the most money (in every speciality but psychiatrists are the most enthusiastic, their patients are generally too ill and messed up made worst by horrific medication to complain). Even the educated ones are generally too far down the rabbit hole to get back out, fortunately, I trusted my judgement but more importantly I had an outstanding GP willing to listen and fight my corner.

I was really blessed to have a GP who was really old School, if a patient needed 20 minutes, his patient got 20 minutes. Everyone in the surgery knew if our appointment was for 10 we would probably get in at 11. No-one cared and it was surprising how few complaints they recieved (everyone knew, when they need that extra time, Doc T would give it to them). We all knew how good we had it.

So, inevitable I shared my new found knowledge with my GP (I wasn't telling him anything too shocking, he had been a GP for 40 years), he already knew most of it.

There is a joke within the medical field 'psychiatry is for the Doctors who arent good enough to practice real medicine'. There is exceptions and you will find a few gems.

So he (my GP) made an appointment with psychiatry and tried to rationalise with them. (If him giving me 4-5 max prescriptions for 28 5mg diazepam a year that was keeping me calm and actually working, why are THEY so desperate to put me on untested (still under patent heavy duty medications?) That were making me seriously ill? The answer was money, he knew it, and they knew it, they have targets (KPI's to hit), to keep the drug reps happy and ultimately their bosses who also got paid based on how many prescriptions they wrote for certain medications. I can recommend you some books on the topic if you're interested?

So he fought my corner and basically got them to transfer my medical care over to him and discharged me from psychiatry. Its suprising how quickly I got better under my GP. Sadly, he was forced into retirement a few years later by the 'New NHS'. But, I try and practice the lessons he taught me, I dont always get it right but its kept me sane.

What works for me? A mixture, z class will work for a few days (5 at most), Benzo's work but they prevent you getting the 4 stages of sleep your body needs to recuperate and recharge. Exhaustion works best, as odd as it sounds. When your body gets so exhausted it has no choice but to sleep but, thats dangerous too.

So I mix it up, I have z class nights, then benzo nights, then drug free nights (except my pain meds which are unavoidable, I have a fractured spine).

The trick is to only take sleeping meds 3 nights maximum (my GP taught me to do alternative weeks or 3 nights maximim a week). Its very difficult and without a GP to help its near impossible for many. (Try keeping a diary). Fortunately, if im relaxed during the day (xanax or valium) I will sleep ok in those 3 evenings a week.

There is no quick/easy fix, its different for everone and you need to be disciplined.

Gabapentin has horrific withdrawels but while it was under patent, the Doctors loved it. Thats the pattern you will often find sadly.
 

Robomarley1

Senior member
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Posts
170
@Chancer Yeah that sounds similar to my experience. I was given sertraline but the couple of days I took it it made my OCD way way worse and i went to the ER. That is why my psychiatrist gave me Seroquel, I am mainly worried about getting worse again if i take it. And i would not take it more than once or twice a week. I have been taking gabapentin by itself 4 or 5 days in a row, then baclofen by itself three or 4 days in a row, then 2 days where i did not take anything.

I was told that neither of the drugs were really that addictive and i could take them everyday. I still was wary and know that they are indeed addictive, if they weren't why are you told to not stop taking the drug immediately and see your doctor? I am hesitant to take most psych med every single day, the reason i got my self into this predicament was through abusing alprazolam and clonazepam every day for 6 years. The last time I did sleep without any aides i actually got about 6 1/2 hours of sleep both nights so that is vastly improved from the past 2 months. I quit the benzos on the first of August. I do feel like i am slightly paranoid.
 

Chancer

Exalted member
Joined
May 25, 2012
Posts
2,730
@Robomarley1 Look up an illness called Tardive Dyskensia and its links to anti-Psych meds. Its irreversible in many cases and is the same as the early stages of Parkinsons Disorder. Thats why you see so many patients with uncontrollable shakes in psych wards, it has nothing to do with withdrawals (or very rarely connected).

There are some geniune Pschiatrists who want to help patients, unfortunately they are caught up in a completely unproductive system. However, you might get lucky and find a hidden gem. I dont just mean one that will prescribe benzo's, I mean one who genuinely wants to treat the patient as the priority.
 

Gladheart

Eminent member
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Posts
1,211
I had an MD who was a big fan of Baclofen for sleep and general wellbeing. I took it almost every night 20mg for well over a year. I guess it helped a little...maybe? I was aware that when stopping the med there could be withdrawal symptoms somewhat similar, but much milder than benzo withdrawal. I tapered the med and had no issues at all. My wife found that Baclofen worked well as a muscle relaxant for an old car accident injury. I wasn't that impressed overall with the med. I guess it just depends on the person. @Robomarley1 good luck and I hope it continues to help you sleep.
 

Chancer

Exalted member
Joined
May 25, 2012
Posts
2,730
@Gladheart That sounds perfectly logical, you get withdrawals when you stop drinking tea, coffee or even Chocolate. Once our systems gets used to something its only Natural it will respond when we remove it.

When I take Xanax I chew them, they work instantly, I KNOW its the placebo effect but I don't care that its 'in my head' all I care is its working until it kicks in properly in another 20 minutes or so.
 

sonia

Lapsed Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Posts
267
I was prescribed Baclofen years ago for a neurologic problem. Have taken it regularly over 20 years. 20 mg. 3 times a day. It never made me sleepy until about 2 years ago, when I get knocked off my feet. Maybe my liver isn’t what it used to be LOL, but I think more the formulation is not what it used to be. So yes, I believe the Baclofen that is currently being manufactured can be used for sleep. My guess is that now the pills are breaking down quicker and the chemicals get in your system almost all at once….the brand Lioresal was so effective, but that was stopped in this country at least 15 years ago. Canada used to have it, but it was always unusually expensive.
 

dinger

Honorable member
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Posts
444
I have been on baclofen now for 10 years plus....I am at a steady 30mg per day...But can go up to 60mg if i need it...
It works great on my calf muscles....I have chronic back pain.....I am on Transtec Buprenorphine and Sublingaul also...
Am glad it helps with sleep for you.....
 

Juju62861

Senior member
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Posts
157
So Baclofen causes sedation and anxiolysis by binding to a subset of receptors in your brain called GABA-B receptors (as do Phenibut and Pregabalin), whereas most benzodiazepines/hypnotics/barbiturates bind to the GABA-A receptors (and are therefore more addictive). They do similar things, but both do it in very different ways. One does it by causing the action potential likelihood to decrease due to depolarizing it from outside the gated voltage channel (GABA-A) resulting in more sedation, anxiolysis, and muscle relaxation; the other causes the action potential to become less likely by depolarizing from within (GABA-B) resulting in less sedation, anxiolysis, and muscle relaxant effects. There are more ways these complex receptors work and even more GABA subtypes (several dozen, actually), but they're wayyy too complicated if you don't know much about anatomy/physiology.
That all said, all GABA mediating drugs carry a risk of dependency. Do NOT be fooled that they are 100% safe because they're not a controlled substance. If you want a drug that will actually cause a massive increase in REM sleep without a HUGE risk for dependency or addiction, then talk to your doctor about off-label use of Gabapentin or Pregabalin. They're both extremely effective at increasing theta-wave, or deep REM, sleep and they both carry much less risk of dependence than the Z-drugs (zolpidem/zopiclone/etc). Hope that makes sense? Sorry if not, I am just coming off a 16 hour shift. Be safe!
 

CalmSeeker

Honorable member
Joined
Jul 2, 2021
Posts
317
@Chancer Yeah that sounds similar to my experience. I was given sertraline but the couple of days I took it it made my OCD way way worse and i went to the ER. That is why my psychiatrist gave me Seroquel, I am mainly worried about getting worse again if i take it. And i would not take it more than once or twice a week. I have been taking gabapentin by itself 4 or 5 days in a row, then baclofen by itself three or 4 days in a row, then 2 days where i did not take anything.

I was told that neither of the drugs were really that addictive and i could take them everyday. I still was wary and know that they are indeed addictive, if they weren't why are you told to not stop taking the drug immediately and see your doctor? I am hesitant to take most psych med every single day, the reason i got my self into this predicament was through abusing alprazolam and clonazepam every day for 6 years. The last time I did sleep without any aides i actually got about 6 1/2 hours of sleep both nights so that is vastly improved from the past 2 months. I quit the benzos on the first of August. I do feel like i am slightly paranoid.
My initial doses and any change in dose of sertraline caused manic episodes for me. It eventually wound up helping my mood a great deal when I got to the right dose, but I couldn’t deal with the side effects.
I was also recently prescribed seroquel, but it gave me a hangover every morning, so I quit taking it.
I’m actually going to pick up yet another antipsychotic med tomorrow. Supposedly it can help with keeping me asleep, whereas seroquel would knock me out like 12 minutes after taking it, but I never got good sleep from it.
Also, while maybe not addicting, antipsychotics are pretty much guaranteed to cause irreversible problems with long term use. It says as much in the leaflet I get with my prescription.
Beast of luck, hopefully something works for you. I’m super sensitive to any psych meds, so my personal anecdotes are just that. You may wind up finding relief.
 

CalmSeeker

Honorable member
Joined
Jul 2, 2021
Posts
317
THEY so desperate to put me on untested (still under patent heavy duty medications?)
Yeah, if you look up common antipsychotic meds that are so widely distributed now, like seroquel, one of the first things you’ll read is “no one really knows how exactly this medication works.”
Not exactly comforting. And I don’t really appreciate feeling like I’m a generational test subject cause benzos bad, etc
 

Chancer

Exalted member
Joined
May 25, 2012
Posts
2,730
@Juju62861 Great Post, well explained. Thank you.
Follow up question:

What if any does medications like Phenibut with an ability to pass the blood/brain barrier have on our systems? Does it make them more dangerous/potent/effective etc. I've always understood (very limited understanding) that our blood/brain barrier is there to protect us?

Does creating these medications with an ability to pass this generally protected area pose potential risks?

Thank you in advance (get some sleep first 😊).
 

KeithDavid

Lapsed Senior Member
Joined
May 14, 2011
Posts
526
I got these prescribed for back pain, they mainly made me tired & kind of caused me to forget things so I stopped taking them. Maybe they can help but I didn’t like them or Gaba for back pain. Doc said maybe zanaflex or cyclobenzaprine would work….
 

Santa's little helper

Exalted member
Joined
Feb 24, 2020
Posts
2,597
baclofen is honestly the only muscle relaxant that ever helped my lower back a little and took some pain away.. not by that much though.. it's def worth taking for me if i'm having a really bad day to get any extra relief possible
With low benzo/opiate tolerance, baclofen can be effective. Great potentiator for codeine which is now indicated on my very occasional controlled scripts
 
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