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Experience with Phenobarbital?

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Nepa

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I've heard of these old barb's from years ago, and came across some 64.8 mg tabs (weird i know) .... does anyone have any experience with them. Are they at all like benzo's? I would really like to try them, everywhere I look it says they were used for sleep disorders and stuff, but since benzos came around they've been gone. They were actually prescribed to a big ol dog so... should I be weary of taking testing them out?? Or has anyone else? thanks alot
 

Utopiate

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I've heard of these old barb's from years ago, and came across some 64.8 mg tabs (weird i know) .... does anyone have any experience with them. Are they at all like benzo's? I would really like to try them, everywhere I look it says they were used for sleep disorders and stuff, but since benzos came around they've been gone. They were actually prescribed to a big ol dog so... should I be weary of taking testing them out?? Or has anyone else? thanks alot

64.8 mg is the near equivalent for the measurement of 1 grain. It used to be prescribed that way. The old "quarter grain" of codeine was really common until the mid-80s where I'm from. And I'm so old that I used to administer this stuff (phenobarb) for seizures and occasionally for nighttime sedation. It also used to come in combinations with various drugs for stomach ulcers, colitis and "spastic colon" type complaints.

When giving it for sedation, especially in a case of insomnia, there was a common caveat that the pill would work better on the second night, not to expect the full effect on the first dose (so the assumption of nightly doses was automatic back then). Also there were a lot of drug interactions to give cautions over.

I took it a couple of times last century and I don't remember having a favorable opinion of it. I remember feeling like my IQ had dropped by about half and then getting quite a hangover effect.

If the old dog is taking it for seizures I guess it was an old vet who prescribed them, maybe because of the price. The dog could probably make better use of them.
 

File Error 500

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They are primarily an anti-convulsants to treat epilepsy, but were prescribed for other things as @Utopiate describes.

They were used pre-benzodiazepine, meaning before they were introduced in the 1960's. They stay in the body for 2 days AT LEAST, if you take it regularly they can stay in your system for up to 2 weeks.

The effect on a person who takes them is not like taking benzodiazepines. To me it was nothing like taking a benzodiazepines. I agree with @Utopiate, it has been decades since I took it, but the memory of it was extremely unpleasant. As @Utopiate states, my IQ had dropped significantly and the hangover effect was brutal.

If I had found phenobarbital I would not take it, very bad memories of the stuff.
 

notcharlotte

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i had a relative who took phenobarb for years because of a childhood seizure disorder. it is still used to treat epilepsy worldwide. i agree with everyone: it does not effect one like a benzo.
 

brother sebastian

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Nov 17, 2014
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I was prescribed this as a child (in the 1970s) as a treatment for migraine. It came in a suppository form and was called "Wans 2".

It stopped a migraine, all right, simply because it is impossible to have a headache when you are comatose. Well, maybe you can still HAVE a headache, but you surely don't REALIZE it when you are knocked unconscious.

I agree completely with everything that @Utopiate said about it giving a hangover and causing a feeling that one's IQ is lowered. This is probably the drug that Huey Lewis had in mind when he sang about a drug that makes me "feel three feet thick." :giggle:
 

File Error 500

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I was prescribed this as a child (in the 1970s) as a treatment for migraine. It came in a suppository form and was called "Wans 2".

It stopped a migraine, all right, simply because it is impossible to have a headache when you are comatose. Well, maybe you can still HAVE a headache, but you surely don't REALIZE it when you are knocked unconscious.

Laughing with you regarding the effect of Phenobarbital!

Migraines. OH I know the pain form Migraines: I sufferer from Chronic Migraines. Fiorecet, which is used for tension headaches, has a version of phenobarbital called "bubital" along with caffeine and Tylenol or aspirin. I cannot stand bubital and it is known to cause rebound headaches. A lot of headache sufferers love Fiorecet but not me.
 

Nepa

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well isnt this a disappointment. I was hoping to have a back up for SOME time that i may need them - when running out of benzos. HOPEFULLY doc will come through today from 4/8 but that high hopes. Hopefully it never gets to the point of having to use them but ..... I got like 90 of em, just sittin here. I couldn't believe when my friend said "hey i got a bunch of pheno's" i was like what??? and all I could think of was "didn't they ban that crap in the 80's for some crazy stuff" .... same was said for halcion though as well, but it's a completely dif thing. I like halcion, works great - just impossible to find, well, under $120/mg hahaaha thanks for all the input. Just making sure I wasnt going to die if i DID have to take a few or gave a few to a friend.
 

Skeletal_Wings

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I had some experiences with Phenobarbital 4 or 5 years ago. I think the pills I got were half the strength of the ones you're looking at, but I can't remember how many I took at a time, probably a couple. From what I remember, they are sort of along the lines of Benzos, but they're more sedating. Honestly I'm not even completely sure what effect they truly had because most of the times I took them I'd fall asleep right after they kicked in. I've taken a lot of different kinds of sleeping drugs and sedating things, and Phenobarbital was without question one of the strongest in that particular respect. I understand your desire to try them because they're so rare and "old school", but unless you're an insomniac looking for a drug to knock you out I'd say it may not be worth the money.
 

Alderon14

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Dec 16, 2016
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Interesting. I've never taken the stuff but when my daughter was born they were concerned she may have had a small seizure and so prescribed liquid pheno twice daily for 6 months (I really don't believe she ever had a seizure, but I digress). One day I spilled about half the bottle by mistake and had to ask her doc to write me a new prescription. She gave me a "suspicious" look. I never realized pheno was used for anything other than seizures so I was confused as to why she seemed leary of my request. Went home and did more research and understood :) So now my daughter's pediatrician thinks I'd do anything for a fix ;P
 

Nikolas

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Not for those used in benzos . Despite still usefull for seizures today it is so old fashioned and there were many reasons for that. Back in the old days barbs were the most popular pills around . So were deaths especially for those combining them with alcohol . The LD of barbiturates is very narrow compared with that of benzos .And there is not a rapid antidote for Barbiturates like benzos . So my advice is stay away from any version still available for safety reaons and only .
 

Missmolly

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I agree with @Nikolas The risk with barbs is simply not worth it. I suffer from extreme insomnia but i would never risk going down that route. You have my sympathy but please heed the advice you have been given.
I have even heard of people using Versed aka Midazolam for sleep! That is used in hospitals for certain procedures ( I have had it myself) I do not think these types of drugs should be sold for home consumption.
 
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Brax

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Phenobarbital for sleep ? That doesn't make much sense IMO.

It is not very hypnotic, but it is more suitable as an anticonvulsant except for tolerance and dependency issues. Secobarbital for sleep, that's more like it ... but just be careful with the barbiturates, there is serious overdose potential unlike with the benzodiazepines (as long as no other drugs are taken).
@Missmolly, I have taken midazolam for sleep. Nothing wrong with that, except for an unpleasant rebound effect that can occur ... It's really not that special. Now Versed, that is injectable midazolam and very different stuff. Don't try that at home !
 
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Rylee

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Phenobarbital for sleep ? That doesn't make much sense IMO.

It is not very hypnotic, but it is more suitable as an anticonvulsant except for tolerance and dependency issues. Secobarbital for sleep, that's more like it ... but just be careful with the barbiturates, there is serious overdose potential unlike with the benzodiazepines (as long as no other drugs are taken).
@Missmolly, I have taken midazolam for sleep. Nothing wrong with that, except for an unpleasant rebound effect that can occur ... It's really not that special. Now Versed, that is injectable midazolam and very different stuff. Don't try that at home !


I agree with you @Brax, not for sleep imo. A long time ago my dr had given me enough for about 5 days when I wanted to be taken off a pretty strong med for cancer. it worked pretty good. I was prescribed the med for too long & wanted to stop, didn't feel I needed it anymore. Was So glad he had something like this to help!
He only prescribed me 1 pill 2x a day for 2 days then after that less each day, can't remember the mg but sure it was low. It took the edge off. But didn't help me sleep, but was thankful for it.

I would suggest Not using this drug for anything not rx'd by a Dr.! They know how to use it & when needed.
 
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Brax

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@Roz,

Especially if you have some tolerance it can feel weak. As I said, I've taken it and it didn't live up to the reputation of Versed !
 

H20shed65

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@Brax

We do not typically think of Phenobarbital as a Hypnotic beceause Bensoz and Z drugs have largely replaced Barbituates. The normal dose one sees now is between 30mg -120 MG , typiically in divided doses. Although Divided Doses are unneeded due to the long half life of Phenobarbital, it may help reduce the hypnotic effect.

It can be used for Hypnotiv effect, though you wouldbe unwise to choose this route. Fot Adult Sedation, 100mg - 300mg PO once daily with a Maximum of 400mg in any 24 hour period. The maximum length of time indicated for insomnia is 2 weeks. And the rebound insomnia will ,make Dalmame look harmless.

Phenobarbital has largely been replaced with more modern antiseizure medications, many which exhibit less efficacy , yet more Side Effects: Dilantin Anyone? Tegtetol? Great if you need to gain 70 pounds! Topamax: Makes you Tired & Lethargic ( Gee, sounds like Phenobarb....H mmmmmm ) Thete are some very efficacious drugs like gabapentin which has an excellent safety profile and may physicians will add a second drug if they find the first is not efficacious.

Benzodiazepines are NEVER a long term solution to severe, Tonic- Clonic Seizures except in the ER where Imjectable Lorazwpam is now the drug of choice. But long term, no Benzo save for perhaps Klonopin has been shown to control seizures , and even Klonopin is not a good long term solution.
 
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I've read that clobazam aka Frisium is a benzo for anti convulsant use. It may or may not be scripted in all countries, but there are iop sources out there.
 

LindaHed

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Dear, when I just started as PT/OR Nurse years ago after 5 years of training in ER, Barbital Forte or Phenobarbital 30 mg was the highes known dose. We always taken into consideration weight, opiates administration (in trauma or post operative unit it was always morphine sulfate), with that said 64 mg would simply kill any barbiturate naive patient. PCP used to prescribe it before Ambien came to the scene. But unless you have a mechanically ventilated patient, I don't know which doctor in the right mind would use such dose. There are way better newer and safer options. But be careful if you have to use it we all need our sleep. I suffer from insomnia myself and I would take Phenobarbital 5mg over 10mg of Ambien due to PB long acting properties. Much love ❤️
 
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