How bad is the Opioid Crisis?

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Pbenin

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I am hearing about this a lot in different media lately, but kind of a little confused with the information. Whats happening exactly ?? Any insight? Thanks in advance.

PB
 
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Azzamean

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What we are FINALLY hearing about, and the FDA has finally started making clear reversals, is the War on Pain Patients. Jumping Jesus am I tortured with hoops and obstacle courses. Just switched my pharmacy the other day because I was harassed on a certain medication that states “as needed” when I’ve been on the med for many, many years. If I have to take 8 pills as needed then I take them as needed. Pharmacist actually was asking if I ever reduce dose and try to get off and shit. I went nuts on the lady and now I have a new pharmacy. My hydro is written as fake 1 every 8 hours, but the other pain is as needed and now that gets flagged in the system to harass if they refill is done over x amount of months.

The Opiod crisis is bad, but that door has already been opened. Pandora box began and the cats outta the bag. Now with fent so cheap and easy to make, press, or cut, shits only gotten worse. They make it such a damn pain in the ass to get a simple script filled I can see why people would take the chance on it.

I won’t lie. I’ve thought about it myself. I get narcan every month I get my script filled. At least I’d have that... but I digress and my point is there is a reason people take the fent risk and the unfortunate consequences have been worse than the days when it was easier to get prescribed medication.

The entire war on drugs needs to ****ing end.
 

jaders

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What we are FINALLY hearing about, and the FDA has finally started making clear reversals, is the War on Pain Patients. Jumping Jesus am I tortured with hoops and obstacle courses. Just switched my pharmacy the other day because I was harassed on a certain medication that states “as needed” when I’ve been on the med for many, many years. If I have to take 8 pills as needed then I take them as needed. Pharmacist actually was asking if I ever reduce dose and try to get off and shit. I went nuts on the lady and now I have a new pharmacy. My hydro is written as fake 1 every 8 hours, but the other pain is as needed and now that gets flagged in the system to harass if they refill is done over x amount of months.

The Opiod crisis is bad, but that door has already been opened. Pandora box began and the cats outta the bag. Now with fent so cheap and easy to make, press, or cut, shits only gotten worse. They make it such a damn pain in the ass to get a simple script filled I can see why people would take the chance on it.

I won’t lie. I’ve thought about it myself. I get narcan every month I get my script filled. At least I’d have that... but I digress and my point is there is a reason people take the fent risk and the unfortunate consequences have been worse than the days when it was easier to get prescribed medication.

The entire war on drugs needs to ****ing end.
1000% agree with all you said. I can't believe pharmacists think they have ANY right to say ANYTHING! That actually seems like a violation of HIPPA to me. It's none of their damn business when you have a legitimate script, for them to ask any questions NOT related to filling it, again seems like they're violating your right to privacy. I would'a told em I'd sue their ass over that...glad you "unloaded" on them! :clapping: Also glad you found a new pharmacy. I'm SO thankful I have a small locally owned pharmacy who is more than reasonable about all of this. They actually allowed me to pick up a narcotic script for my housebound neighbor just because they knew both of us.

The war on drugs is an abject failure. There's more heroin and yes now fentanyl, (not to mention meth and coke) than there ever has been and the violence going on because of the illegal trade is just growing. It's so obviously unwinnable, so it's time to find a new approach. The opiate "war" on pain patients, as you said, is just driving MORE deaths as well.

Thank god we have alternatives...

PS - does Narcan go "bad" rapidly? Just wondering why you have to get it every time you get a refill of your meds? Just curious. I have no experience with it...
 
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Azzamean

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I did go nuts because she withheld my script, which is in her rights until my doctor contacted her at 7:30 AM that morning. I wrote corporate a scathing letter. I have not heard back nor care. I switched to a local one near my house. I used them in the past and the only reason I haven’t used them yet is because I’ve heard of them running out and having to wait a day or two on meds but now they have 2 other locations so I’m sure they can pull meds from there.

In my state you can get narcan if you get an opiod script and I think they may have it now to just ask a pharmacist. But mine isn’t $140 like usual it’s part of my insurance so it costs next to nothing. I have probably... well let’s just say I have a lot.

Idk if it goes bad as I e never had to use it but never know if I’ll need it I suppose.
 

jakemoe

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@Azzamean, It's good to have Narcan on hand if you take opioids I suppose. I don't know what good it could ever do me tho since I live alone. But if I was found unconscious and Narcan was on the table I would hope someone would give it to me. Probably will never happen because I am only allowed so many pills per month so I don't play with them and I don't want to run short when I'm in pain. And the war goes on.:punch:
 

Azzamean

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Yea... Honestly I get it just to get it. I’m same with you in that I’m prescribed a set amount except I do order things on the side in the event of needing more. With the amount of fent out in things now it’s better safe than sorry.
 

jaders

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Yea... Honestly I get it just to get it. I’m same with you in that I’m prescribed a set amount except I do order things on the side in the event of needing more. With the amount of fent out in things now it’s better safe than sorry.
There was a time in my life when getting my meds was very difficult at times, so I resorted to poppy pods. Twice I got pretty scared about the amount I was "feeling" since it's really impossible to know what the exact dose is, and there can be some errant pod that's somehow more potent. I'm thinking I could've administered narcan to myself as I came close to going to the ER. Luckily both times I rode it out and was ok. But I'd rather self administer narcan, than go thru the hassle at an ER and have a bunch of "questions." I don't play with my meds anymore tho either - as long as I can get the dose that works for me, I just stick with that amount. But I agree, that since we're having to supplement and there's always a chance it isn't what it's supposed to be, it would be good to have the narcan around. It sounds pretty expensive tho. I guess there's worse ways to die too... ;)
 

MRNUTTY

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I would rather die than get jabbed with narcan again. That stuff sucks. I felt like I was going to have a heart attack. Jackasses juiced me in the ambulance when I said I had some MJ earlier before a fall. Wtf. Then I go through WD at the hospital waiting to get out.
 

ludwig1961

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I always wondered about those pods. I hate I missed out on those. Lord willing, I won't ever need narcan.
 
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jaders

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I would rather die than get jabbed with narcan again. That stuff sucks. I felt like I was going to have a heart attack. Jackasses juiced me in the ambulance when I said I had some MJ earlier before a fall. Wtf. Then I go through WD at the hospital waiting to get out.
Wow. I seem to remember you telling about that a while ago. :speechless: So narcan just basically replaces any opiate at the receptor sites? Does it last a while? Like a half hour after administering the narcan, could you take a dose of an opiate to get out of WD?
 
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MRNUTTY

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@jaders, I got the shot around 11pm, and got home around 5am. So somewhere around 3:30am I started feeling crappy. Other than that, I'm not familiar with it's operational characteristics. The worse part was the chest pain from the narcan. Yeah, I bitched about it before :)
 

jaders

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@jaders, I got the shot around 11pm, and got home around 5am. So somewhere around 3:30am I started feeling crappy. Other than that, I'm not familiar with it's operational characteristics. The worse part was the chest pain from the narcan. Yeah, I bitched about it before :)
But I’m assuming you took a dose of an opiate right away when you got home. (Too personal?) Just wondering if the narcan continued to block for that long or could the opiate bring you out from WDs?
 

MRNUTTY

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@jaders, I don't recall. But at the time, I would have probably taken a dose before bedtime, and another sometime before getting up in the morning. So, to me it seemed like it obviated my bedtime dose, and I get hit 12+ hours after my previous dose. Narcan might keep you from dying if you took too much, but if you're feeling OK it's certainly going to make you feel worse.

While I delight in complaint as much as the next person, I'm also trying to bring the cavalier use of narcan under any circumstances. I didn't admit to opioids, or taking too much MJ, they just went and juiced me. I don't like just any old thing shot into me. The so-called epidemic (as compared to guns and booze those legal killers? Not so bad actually), gives the wrong people too much latitude To screw you over - all in good-faith of course :p
 
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jaders

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@jaders, I don't recall. But at the time, I would have probably taken a dose before bedtime, and another sometime before getting up in the morning. So, to me it seemed like it obviated my bedtime dose, and I get hit 12+ hours after my previous dose. Narcan might keep you from dying if you took too much, but if you're feeling OK it's certainly going to make you feel worse.

While I delight in complaint as much as the next person, I'm also trying to bring the cavalier use of narcan under any circumstances. I didn't admit to opioids, or taking too much MJ, they just went and juiced me. I don't like just any old thing shot into me. The so-called epidemic (as compared to guns and booze those legal killers? Not so bad actually), gives the wrong people too much latitude To screw you over - all in good-faith of course :p
Totally agree. If you were awake and aware enough to tell them whether or not you needed the narcan, they certainly shouldn't be doing that willy-nilly (or without your permission at all!) If you were unconscious, I could see it. It's a crazy world where whatever is the "issue d'jour" brings out all sorts of inappropriate behaviors, as we're all being subjected to IMHO...
 

notcharlotte

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just wow, @MRNUTTY, i didn't know they could just jab you with something you did not consent to taking. look at all the diagnoses they are missing while assuming everyone is overdosing.

let's remember the opioid crisis is predominantly a street drug crisis: meth heroin, and crack. now that they've demonized pain patients with no effect on overdose statistics, i'm waiting for the raids on meth labs and shooting galleries. lol, no i'm not, because they're not done targeting prescriptions and doctors who are sitting ducks. the use of heroin has skyrocketed, but that lady had her appendix outside and asked for percocet. the horror! a drug addict! meanwhile, down the street thirty people shoot up h in a deserted house. but the percocet is the problem since she should be taking excedrin. will the insanity ever end? not today (check out today's news re: the ambassador).
 

MRNUTTY

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@notcharlotte, yeah, I was pissed. They're just trying to do their job in the face of ignorance - but I'm not letting it happen again. I will scream bloody murder if it happens again. I told them I took MJ regularly and hadn't taken any more that night than previously. FWIW, the hospital said the fainting was unrelated.

IF you haven't had narcan before, do not assume it's OK to take it whenever. I wouldn't take it again unless my LIFE was in jeopardy. As it was, I wasn't in that kind of danger - unless I fell down the stairs and broke my neck.

(Re: and nunes. Whoa hoho!)
 
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M77

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My state doesn’t offer Narcan with opiate prescriptions, but if they did, I could see filling it once, to have in a real emergency. I would probably keep it in my car, in case I ever could save someone. This might just be me, but I wouldn’t take a Narcan pen every month, from the pharmacy. In my state, they would definitely use it against you. When I see my pain doctor, he has a printout of every single prescription I filled in the last 30 days, on his desk, at each appointment. I know they are checking to make sure that you aren’t “doctor shopping,” but if I had 1 Narcan, filled every month, he would probably throw me out! And he is a nice guy!
 

jaders

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My state doesn’t offer Narcan with opiate prescriptions, but if they did, I could see filling it once, to have in a real emergency. I would probably keep it in my car, in case I ever could save someone. This might just be me, but I wouldn’t take a Narcan pen every month, from the pharmacy. In my state, they would definitely use it against you. When I see my pain doctor, he has a printout of every single prescription I filled in the last 30 days, on his desk, at each appointment. I know they are checking to make sure that you aren’t “doctor shopping,” but if I had 1 Narcan, filled every month, he would probably throw me out! And he is a nice guy!
I’ve heard that some states are actually REQUIRING anyone with an opiate script to get narcan. It’s complete bs imho because it’s again assuming that most folks who RX’d opiates are likely to abuse them which the numbers certainly offer little facts to substantiate that.

I work in public service tho and our managers are getting trained to administer narcan as quite a few folks use our restrooms to “use.” Another reason to have safe injection sites and give addicts their drugs. It would stop SO MUCH crime, in my opinion...
 

M77

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I’ve heard that some states are actually REQUIRING anyone with an opiate script to get narcan. It’s complete bs imho because it’s again assuming that most folks who RX’d opiates are likely to abuse them which the numbers certainly offer little facts to substantiate that.

I work in public service tho and our managers are getting trained to administer narcan as quite a few folks use our restrooms to “use.” Another reason to have safe injection sites and give addicts their drugs. It would stop SO MUCH crime, in my opinion...
@jaders
I couldn’t agree more. Narcan is a lifesaver, although it’s getting crazy when, as @MRNUTTY mentioned, dosing someone that didn’t even need it, is a little crazy. My guess is the “paramedics,” if that’s what they were, assumed that they would rather give someone an unnecessary dose, as opposed to losing someone that did need it. Pretty crazy. I know time is of the essence, when it comes to saving someone, so maybe they should have some kind of instant blood test, to check for an OD, a few seconds earlier. Who knows if that is even possible. If someone was unresponsive, but it was from another condition, who knows what Narcan could do.

As far as safe injection places, I know this outrages people, but I agree. Addicts are going to do whatever they have to. Why not give them a place to protect them from spreading hepatitis, and obviously worse, HIV. As far as crime mitigation, unless they are going to also give them drugs, the crime committed to get cash for the next fix, might not be abated. That said, I would rather see them get drugs that aren’t laced with Fent, or have them OD. Maybe they get a fix, in exchange for staying and going on a methadone program. Anything is better than the status quo.
 

nobknee

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What we are FINALLY hearing about, and the FDA has finally started making clear reversals, is the War on Pain Patients.
I agree with everything you said except this. I see no sign of the War on Pain Patients getting anything but worse. I live in a state where this shit has been going on since 2005. The forced tapers that are happening to most pain patients now were happening where I live in 2009. You virtually cannot get an opioid pill in my town. Not legally anyway. Our hospital is "opioid free" and the pain clinic doesn't do prescriptions at all. Emergency rooms will not dispense any other controlled substances without pee-testing you first. Oh, your positive for marijuana? Well, you'll just have to keep having that panic attack, sorry, because they're not going to give you anything. They're just going to send you home, probably with a note in your file that you're a drug-seeker.

So I think we've just about hit rock bottom where I live, but in other places, the forced tapers are really just beginning. (Spoiler alert: It only gets worse from here.) I'm always a little stunned to read from people in other states who are shocked and appalled at things people where I live have taken for a granted for a decade.

Sure, the FDA and the AMA have made some mealy-mouthed statements that sort of appear to be in our favor, but they've taken no real action to stop the tide. Almost no one with any power is saying what every doctor knows: Prescriptions didn't cause the opioid crisis. They have nothing to do with the opioid crisis. Most people don't even get high off pharmaceutical opioids. Opioids are mostly prescribed to people over 50 and opioid overdoses are mostly among people under 30.

The only relationship between these two things is that some pain patients are turning to the illicit market, and some of those people are going to die from illicit drugs tainted with fentanyl.

I wish I shared your optimism, but I see no signs of this getting better any time soon. "The Opioid Epidemic" is one of the few issues, possibly the ONLY issue, in the United States right now that both conservatives and liberals agree about and rate as a serious problem. So both parties have every reason to double-down on things like the NOPAIN Act and further restrictions on doctors.

Pretty soon, all of you will be where my town is now. The hospital here recently physically pinned down a screaming woman to debride her wound, because they refused to give her anything for pain. We've had surgical patients waking up during surgery because the OR no longer administers fentanyl during surgery or in the recovery room.

Eventually, this will have to turn around, but I don't see it happening any time soon. The lack of medical opioids will just lead more people to street drugs, which will cause more overdoses, which will lead to more restrictions on medical opioids, in a vicious circle.
 
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