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How to get on Sub?

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ram-man

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May 2, 2021
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246
I've used Karatom to help me get off Ulram. For me it was mostly an op wd. Once the op wd's passed it was all downhill.

Just curious if anybody knows if subs are tracked under any pmp's at the state or federal level. There are oodles of telemed proviers who will write a script for subs. Does this open the doors to double dipping or more?
 

Doc Rogue

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Mar 14, 2018
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827
I’m going to chime in here, only because I think I may be able to free a bit of advice, or different perspective.

I believe it all depends on why you want to be on them. For example, my PM dr. would allow me to be on them for pain if I wanted, but didn’t think it would be the best choice for my nerve pain.
After discussing all the different long acting meds, his 3 options recommended to me was MS Contin (Long acting Morphine, Methadone, or Buprenorphine aka suboxone).
I’m one that doesn’t get much from morphine, heard horror stories about both bupe and ‘done, but in the end decided to try the done. I’m glad I did.

It doesn’t take all my pain away, but keep a me going higher than let’s say the 6-7 range on the pain scale. And I have BT meds for those rough days. Though I’ve noticed I have had to increase one extra pill for BT pain, due to ‘dones attaching heavily to your receptors. But not nearly as bad as bupe does.

I asked if this would be an issue, as I’m showing up as taking for treatment for being on or abusing meds? But since they’re prescribed for pain management, the answer was no. And if anyone were to give me trouble about it (say during a surgical procedure) he gave me his biz card and wrote his personal cell number on the back, to have any dr. Who may have an issue with it, to call and he’ll set them straight for me.

I hope that helps, and I’m sure it could vary by region or state as well. So take what I offer with that caveat in mind.
 

File Error 500

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Jan 25, 2012
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1,612
I hope that helps, and I’m sure it could vary by region or state as well. So take what I offer with that caveat in mind.
LOL. Not in New York. I tried Suboxone because I was sick codeine, tramadol to fix my chronic headaches. According to my pharmacy records I am deemed a drug addict and no one would believes me that I took when I needed it as opposed to 16 MG daily as what I was prescribed.

It good that you found a solution :)
 

Doc Rogue

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Mar 14, 2018
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827
@File Error 500
That’s really the sad part in all this. Both bupe and methadone were first synthesized or created to help with pain during surgery or for chronic pain issues - long before any nation ever declared a “war on drugs” or were dealing with an opioid epidemic.
Now? We’ve all heard plenty of reports from others, that if you’ve been on either of these meds (regardless of circumstance) you’re automatically deemed an “Addict”, so do not prescribe narcotics to this patient.

I really think it does vary by region though.
There are those Dr’s out there, who refuse to let Big Gov’t (or whatever entity you deem responsible for this crackdown on prescribing) tell them how they are to best treat their patients.

It may take time, longer than you feel you can bear,, but I tell everyone I run into or know, if you truly deal w/ chronic pain, I mean where it’s affects your quality of life - don’t give up.
Yes, the process sucks, going to new Dr and finding out you just wasted your time and money. And there’s a chance you’ll have to jump through some hoops to get the treatment that works best (and keep an open mind), and you may have to do all the other things they require in order to get to the point to prescribe.

Many won’t anymore, no matter what. In fact, just recently my local ER/ hospital has stopped sending home patients with narcotics after many everyday type surgeries. Instead you’re discharged with a script for Lyrica. Not all, but a lot of surgeries - even some hip replacements.
What’s funny to me? I was on Lyrica for about 3 months, and that med sent me flying - and not in a way that was at all pleasant.. more so than any other pain med I’ve ever been on.

But hey.. the overall satisfaction in pain control (according to their surveys) are overwhelmingly positive on how well the patients pain was managed during recovery.
I truly feel for anyone who suffers daily with untreated or under-managed pain levels.
 

dinger

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Mar 26, 2015
Posts
446
When " buprenorphine" came out first....It was called temgesic were i lived....
In doses of 200mcg & 400mcg....Then came back in to fashion again!! the only difference
Its in milligram doses.....I am on it myself and get on very well with it...
 

File Error 500

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Jan 25, 2012
Posts
1,612
I was on Suboxone for two years. I am now off five months. I CHOSE Suboxoxe because for 40 years I was sick of narcotics. Unfortunately I live in New York, I think that Chicago and LA are like that too.

In New York it is simpy a money maker. Boy, I could tell you stories between the various doctors and myself.
 

jaders

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Feb 1, 2012
Posts
3,219
When " buprenorphine" came out first....It was called temgesic were i lived....
In doses of 200mcg & 400mcg....Then came back in to fashion again!! the only difference
Its in milligram doses.....I am on it myself and get on very well with it...

Do you mind my asking if you are taking if for pain management, or because of opiate usage? I totally understand if you'd rather not say... Just curious how effective it is for either of these purposes? Thanks!
 

dinger

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Mar 26, 2015
Posts
446
When " buprenorphine" came out first....It was called temgesic were i lived....
In doses of 200mcg & 400mcg....Then came back in to fashion again!! the only difference
Its in milligram doses.....I am on it myself and get on very well with it...

Do you mind my asking if you are taking if for pain management, or because of opiate usage? I totally understand if you'd rather not say... Just curious how effective it is for either of these purposes? Thanks!
Yes i am prescribed a " transtec 35mcg" and 2 mg buprenorphine for breakthrough pain....
I have had chronic back pain for 16 to 17 years now. I have been on the same patch now for over 10 years...
And over they years i Have had only 2 dose changes in those years...
 

Doc Rogue

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Mar 14, 2018
Posts
827
@dinger
I was offered both of these meds (bupe & ‘done, along with other long acting meds) when I was sick of the roller coaster of pain spikes throughout the day. I’ve been on short acting meds for over 10 years consistently now.
I did a lot of reading up before deciding. One thing that made me go with ‘done, was that he recommended that if I needed less than 60-80mg to stabilize my pain throughout the day, that my breakthrough short acting meds would still work (I’m on 30mg p/day, and yes, the BT meds do still work).

I’m satisfied. My pain is better managed now than before - though I would like a little more BT - due to tolerance. But I’m not ready to ask for an increase - not that my Dr wouldn’t go for it, rather because my insurance is such a bitch to get increases authorized (currently, I’m already over what they normally allow to be covered).

I’ve read that bupe also works well for pain, but not so much if you have a high threshold or tolerance levels. Actually, I would have tried it if the methadone hadn’t worked as well as it does at stabilizing me, capping my pain levels between 5-6 or so on pain scale.

And I’ve gone over a week before not taking the ‘done, to see if it caused major issues for me. It didn’t. (Still took my BT meds during that time to keep pain from getting out of control). So for me, I’m not worried about stopping at some point. I think the lower level I take works best - for now. But wouldn’t hesitate to try bupe down the road if I feel the need to switch things up.
Happy to hear it works for your pain issues as well. Take care.
 

dinger

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Mar 26, 2015
Posts
446
@dinger
I was offered both of these meds (bupe & ‘done, along with other long acting meds) when I was sick of the roller coaster of pain spikes throughout the day. I’ve been on short acting meds for over 10 years consistently now.
I did a lot of reading up before deciding. One thing that made me go with ‘done, was that he recommended that if I needed less than 60-80mg to stabilize my pain throughout the day, that my breakthrough short acting meds would still work (I’m on 30mg p/day, and yes, the BT meds do still work).

I’m satisfied. My pain is better managed now than before - though I would like a little more BT - due to tolerance. But I’m not ready to ask for an increase - not that my Dr wouldn’t go for it, rather because my insurance is such a bitch to get increases authorized (currently, I’m already over what they normally allow to be covered).

I’ve read that bupe also works well for pain, but not so much if you have a high threshold or tolerance levels. Actually, I would have tried it if the methadone hadn’t worked as well as it does at stabilizing me, capping my pain levels between 5-6 or so on pain scale.

And I’ve gone over a week before not taking the ‘done, to see if it caused major issues for me. It didn’t. (Still took my BT meds during that time to keep pain from getting out of control). So for me, I’m not worried about stopping at some point. I think the lower level I take works best - for now. But wouldn’t hesitate to try bupe down the road if I feel the need to switch things up.
Happy to hear it works for your pain issues as well. Take care.
I have read done is prescribed hear in the UK....It goes by the name of physeptone ( for chronic pain) wierdly i came accross that name when.
I was reading a " biography " of the late drummer from the band " cream" he went by the name of ginger baker!! He was on to get of the smack back in the 60s when diamorphine was in tablet form...And was prescribed along with cocaine salt....
I do beleive the tablets are 5 and 10mg..... Yip i came from DHC over to bup ( butrans 20mcg) then went up to ( trantec 35)....i do find 2mg very strong at times...But some one from a opiate backround would be fine.... And like you it iron out my levels... and holds me great during the day..at night it lifts.......
 

Doc Rogue

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Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Posts
827
@dinger
Just because of this thread, I’ve been reading up a lot more on bupe - mostly curiosity.

There’s a lot of data I’m finding now out on it. Didn’t find much at first, because over here, predominantly it’s used for therapy reasons, getting addicts stabilized and off the street drugs.

But man, some articles I’ve since read are an eye opener. It seems to be a viable option for us pain patients.
I’ll just say, I wouldn’t hesitate to try it if my current regimen fails me at some point. It’s nice to know there are more options for me if it comes to that.

One of the biggest misconceptions I’ve discovered, is that BT meds would still help. I’ve always understood it’s such a strong med attaching to the receptors, that BT meds wouldn’t help.
It does attach strongly, but only to Mu I believe. So BT meds still work on the others.
And it’s the Mu that would probably relieve pain for me, maybe even more than ‘done would.. possibly.
More research needed, but like I mentioned before, I’m really in a pretty good place as it is. Not perfect, but life is better than the last few years were for me, before switching up my scripts.

There’s still so much to be discovered I’m finding out. Glad you chimed in. I definitely would like to be more knowledgeable about it.

All the best friend.
 

Hi~Tide

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Apr 2, 2021
Posts
277
I wish I would have taken the time to research the different options before going to a me**@done clinic. I was only able to get 15mg MS (ER more f33n) and perks 10mg, both in twice daily doses.

That’s following a five year regimen of high doses of more f33n up to 390mg/day) along along with 15mg Ox IR.

The clinic accepted me and I began the daily ritual after being told that I would receive take home doses after 90 days of clean UAs. After 6 months of asking “when will I get my take out doses” they finally said it would be once I got to a stable dose. I was still having “cravings” past 100mg, which was crazy considering the low dose of pain pills I had been prescribed. The increase rate was so slow, only 5mg/week after reaching 50mg. And I began reading more about it and discovered the ‘done was actually only 1/2 of what is given. That’s because it is a racemic mixture, which is 50% ineffective.

I wish I could have found a better pain management clinic, one that didn’t believe it was necessary to keep my dose as low as it was for 3 years. I was only having trouble after they told me that if I continued taking two doses of 5mg Vals I would be getting even less!

I just quit the clinic after 18 months with a total of 14 take out doses. I was down to 30mg for 2 days before I had to quit. It was financially not feasible any longer. I had to max my credit cards out in order to pay the $16 daily bill, which amounted to 1/4 of my income.
 
Last edited:

jaders

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Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Posts
3,219
I wish I would have taken the time to research the different options before going to a me**@done clinic. I was only able to get 15mg MS (ER more f33n) and perks 10mg, both in twice daily doses.

That’s following a five year regimen of high doses of more f33n up to 390mg/day) along along with 15mg Ox IR.

The clinic accepted me and I began the daily ritual after being told that I would receive take home doses after 90 days of clean UAs. After 6 months of asking “when will I get my take out doses” they finally said it would be once I got to a stable dose. I was still having “cravings” past 100mg, which was crazy considering the low dose of pain pills I had been prescribed. The increase rate was so slow, only 5mg/week after reaching 50mg. And I began reading more about it and discovered the ‘done was actually only 1/2 of what is given. That’s because it is a racemic mixture, which is 50% ineffective.

I wish I could have found a better pain management clinic, one that didn’t believe it was necessary to keep my dose as low as it was for 3 years. I was only having trouble after they told me that if I continued taking two doses of 5mg Vals I would be getting even less!

I just quit the clinic after 18 months with a total of 14 take out doses. I was down to 30mg for 2 days before I had to quit. It was financially not feasible any longer. I had to max my credit cards out in order to pay the $16 daily bill, which amounted to 1/4 of my income.

And now since you were on methadone, you probably have little chance of finding a pain management clinic that would actually help you?

Hope you can find enough “self help” at this point. For what you were spending at that ‘done clinic, I would think you can…👍
 

Hi~Tide

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Apr 2, 2021
Posts
277
@jaders I’m not really sure, if it’s absolutely necessary I will go to a sub clinic. That’s about 1/2 the cost and only one day a month.

So far my withdrawals from methadone hasn’t taken place. It’s still early about to enter day 4, so if I’m going to have any problems they will begin soon.

I’m taking about four to five taps, along with the about the same number of pre gabs, but I will have to cut back on the latter soon.

Those bastards at modafinilchemist were supposed to be sending me some but it got nasty after they were not relying to my emails. I sent some questions from another email and they started calling me names and said I was lying. I’m hoping the emails they sent me, threatening to send my order to the police etc. is enough to get the people blacklisted here.
 
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