Kratom use

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Missmolly

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Feb 9, 2015
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I have tried Kratom a few years back i did not find them great UNTIL I found an ebay seller, that Kratom he sold me was great, it made me feel energised and europhic and got rid of a toothache. I stopped using opiates and maybe it helped with the withdrawls Im not sure.
Until I tried that Kratom I thought it was over rated. That Kratom was the bomb and I love to have the chance to buy it again. it came in powder form and I cannot remember the strain.
I added it to plain yoghurt with cinnemon and just ate it as fast as I could.
Sadly the ebay seller mostly sold junk stuff, but he had a load of kratom, I offered a buy it offer and he snapped it up, I dont think he realised the price of Kratom.
Given that I have never had kratom that good again, i do wonder if it was mixed with other stuff.
 

lobabe

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Jun 28, 2011
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I've always just tossed and washed myself. I don't have the patience for capsules. And I like to just decide how big of a teaspoon or tablespoon I want in the moment.

Though, things like that have never bothered me. I've noticed it does go down better with warm coffee than water- or anything cold, obviously.

Also- people should know you don't want to ever buy kratom in stores. Always buy directly from Thailand.
 

infamousryan

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May 22, 2011
Posts
750
I used Kratom.......
It didn't work very well
A) Because it gave me a high similar to opiates
B) It took enormous amounts to even give me any effect
C) Those enormous amounts can be damaging to your internal organs including but not limited to your kidneys, liver, and stomach.


People always talk about the positives of Kratom, but they never talk about the negatives.

You can have as much withdrawal from kratom as you have with opiates.

Just because Kratom is not an opiate does not mean it is not addictive.

A lot of the negative side effects are swept under the rug . Kratom is NOT safe like Marijuana


It is a beneficial plant but it is also a plant and chemical that you have to respect like with any other drug.


Usually when you google anything about kratom, the entire first page of information on google is from people WHO ARE SELLING KRATOM!


Which is rediculous . So make sure you really do your research. Ive spoken with many people that have used Kratom long-term and have extremely detrimental side effects related solely to kratom.


Lastly, i'd really be into kratom if it was regulated and you could tell how much Kratom is an equipotent doseage to an opioid. But since you're dealing with a raw plant the alkaloids could be all over the place. Not to mention, they grind the leaves down until they're less half the size of a grain of sugar.


So if it was FDA regulated with the same effects and put into a pill or capsule (i.e. they extract the mitragynine and put it into a pill) i'd be way more into that than Kratom leaf. I may try liquid extract next time if i ever do try it again.


Lastly (i promise this is the last lastly!) , Kratom is not a magical cure. It works for some people, and doesn't work for others. There is no set doseage, and nothing to really help guide people to using it properly .

Every single person i've randomly talked to about kratom had a different doseage
ranging anywhere from 5 grams to 100 grams or more.


Its going to be hard to stabilize yourself on Kratom, because Kratom will get you high . It will make you remember the opiate high and therefore you won't want to quit. So if you do, use Kratom, use very small doseages, and build it up until your withdrawal has gone away . Use half gram or gram increments until you feel good..
Unfortunately for me, regardless what kind i used, i had to use 25 grams to 50 grams...

i didn't feel safe ingesting that much substance. and it made me understand why people were reporting organ failure .
 

wintermute

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C) Those enormous amounts can be damaging to your internal organs including but not limited to your kidneys, liver, and stomach.


i didn't feel safe ingesting that much substance. and it made me understand why people were reporting organ failure .

I ingest large amounts of kratom daily, and I'm very curious where you heard or read about organ failure. Do you have any stories you can direct me to?

I don't use Google because I know they rig the algorithms, so I have done my research through other means including using Duckduckgo. I have read about a few people that had liver issues due to kratom use, but I read many more stories from people who have used large amounts of kratom with no detrimental effects.

TIA
 

teresita

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Jun 4, 2011
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@wintermute. I have been using kratom for many many years and keep up with all the news findings. According to the AKA there has been no case of kratom being hard on any of your organs. Every case where kratom has been blamed, there were underlying conditions that were the real cause. There are plenty of rumors out there but I have not read anything of fact proving kratom is at all dangerous. Each person is unique though and might affect or "disagree" with some.

If you're interested, the AKA has a website and Facebook page that has actual kratom news and developments in the fight to keep it legal
 

lucyinthesky

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Jan 23, 2013
Posts
5,245
I order Kratom and have been using it for years to @teresita
it helps to calm me down & makes me tired..since i can never sleep
I'm always looking for something..whether it's to sleep, calm my heart down from anxiety & wd's

OT-But I have 5 kids in 4 different schools this year..wow has it been stressful lately!
 
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infamousryan

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May 22, 2011
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750
I ingest large amounts of kratom daily, and I'm very curious where you heard or read about organ failure. Do you have any stories you can direct me to?

I don't use Google because I know they rig the algorithms, so I have done my research through other means including using Duckduckgo. I have read about a few people that had liver issues due to kratom use, but I read many more stories from people who have used large amounts of kratom with no detrimental effects.

TIA


I do, but i don't want to get into a kratom war/arguement . Most of you enjoy it so i hope you guys continue to do so.
But the first few pages of information on kratom in google are atypically from Kratom sources, people who sell kratom (even if there aren't links to a specific website on that article that are visible to the naked eye).

There has been several subreddits created for people on Kratom that CANNOT get off of kratom due to the horrendous withdrawals they are having from it while trying to quit.

Including the "official" Kratom reddit.
(You'll have to search through though.. keywords like abuse, damage, and negative aspect-words. if you search the right things you'll find articles of people that have been using kratom for years and are struggling specifically with kratom)

I do have quite a bit of information, but this forum is like a home to me, and im not looking to get into arguements about Kratom.



There are many reports of people who cannot get off Kratom after being on it for years. There are quite a few reports of bodily damage sufferred from taking Kratom specifically with no other drugs.

And im talking about both reports from actual people, and from medical/government websites like the CDC.
(INCLUDING internationally where this plant grows in the wild/naturally.. they have even seen an up-spark in emergency room visits due to kratom. and they've been eating it for a very long time! you would think there wouldn't be ANYTHING like that from those countries that consume kratom as part of their culture.)

However at this specific point in time the beneficial reports far outweigh the negative reports so you will obviously see less negative reporting on it .


There are harmful side effects, this stuff is not marijuana .

Like even if i showed you guys the information or peoples stories would you even believe me?
Or would you just contradict it? Like i haven't even said anything yet and you're already doubting any & all information that is negative about kratom.


Like i said -- not interested in a kratom arguement.

Lastly, if something is binding to an opiate receptor in the same manor as an opiate why would you NOT have withdrawals from Kratom?
Not to mention im sure it effects other receptors and parts of your body . As it does have a stimulant effect too!

If it works for you thats great guys. But i'd keep your dose low, and get your vitals & bloodwork done every few months . If i was taking Kratom, thats what i'd do (the bloodwork every few months for sure just to stay safe)


Anyways i just advise staying safe, that is all. Sorry if i said something the wrong way as i know people feel VERY strongly about Kratom . Kratom is beneficial, yes, but there are side effects and negative effects, like with almost all drugs out there.
 
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wintermute

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Jun 17, 2011
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765
@infamousryan, I didn't intend to start an argument, I am just curious where you read about people suffering from organ failure due to kratom use. I will now do some research on Reddit.

I agree that kratom is addictive, because I most definitely am addicted to it. I used it to get off of tramadol and norcos, so I consider it to be the less of three evils. I have asked my doctor for a liver panel, but she has refused to order one because I don't drink alcohol so she thinks there is no reason my liver would have any issues. I'm not going to tell her that I use kratom, because it may interfer with my ability to be prescribed pain meds when I need them for my spinal injury. My other blood work has come back normal.

My husband ingests large amounts of kratom and has been drinking alcohol almost daily for almost 20 years, so his doctor was willing to order a liver panel for him. His results came back normal.
 

sweetniko

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Dec 28, 2015
Posts
173
Hey Khali,
I actually just read your post on endometriosis and followed it here :). I have been on antidepressants for 22 years. Recently, I had a partial hysterectomy to take care of my endometriosis. It was everywere!! Anyway, gyn rx'd me tramadol for the endo pain while I waited for surgery and I thought I found the the missing piece of my brain chemistry all these years!! I mean, I took 50 mg sometime in the afternoon, not every day because I would be fired for using it at work, although, I didn't feel altered at all. Just like all my aches and pains were gone and I didn't need a nap everyday!! My sex drive was back, I socialized more, I took pleasure in small things. Anyway, needless to say when the surgery was done, so were the meds. :(. I tried to research why the tramadol would effect me in such a way and how I may be able to continue this feeling. I brought up my feelings to my psychiatrist but of course, since it is now a narcotic after being handed out like candy for so many years, she was not on board. My search for help has led me to this kratom craze, lol. I only received my order Saturday and I wasn't really sure what to order but turns out I like the cheaper, Bali, better than the White Vein Maeng Da I received. I only do one teaspoon, and I do put it right in my mouth and wash it down. The Bali def eases my aches and pains and relaxes my mind but keeps my body active. I only tried the MD yesterday, but I felt uptight and sweaty so I don't like it. I would taste it a million times over if it'll take care of my aches and pains and help me feel a little "happier" with my life. Does the kratom help with your endo pain? What strain do you like best for pain relief?

Kratom never helped with my endo pain I wanted a hysterectomy at age 15, 25 and 35. ALl dr's said i was too younG! I wish i had gone overseas like Mexiso and just paid for one yr's ago. I am curious though- if you take Estrogen will the pain come back? I wouldlove to take estrogen- i am 48. I am scared of the pain from endo. B/c one time i used shea in a vit e pill vaginally- i guess they sell a script for it- and I WAS BACK LIKE I WAS 25. Had to take left over Lortabs for a wekk it was so bad. I wonder if my body can never have estrogen again even IF i hget a hystomedty. B/c i alqways thought that IF i had one i could take estrogen without pain and then read that that is not always the case. Also- i would want to save jy ovaries in case theyproeducing something. Something my mother regretted not having done bc the Dr didn't offer her the option. Well now that i have insurance i wonder if they will even give me a jystrometomy since i am 48. And no loger have dndo pain? I can't py out of pocket for it. My only hope would be a turmor the size of a grapefruit like my mother. THen insurance paid for hers.
 

RunRunRiver

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Dec 27, 2019
Posts
75
I love mixing powder with hot tea with milk and honey or a in a bottle of Gatorade. I take about 2g per dose. These drinks mask the taste and make the roa bearable ! Also, I do Green Day time and red at night
 

Rally Pig

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Aug 5, 2013
Posts
64
Toss and wash, you get used to it. I used to make a tea and add honey as I was a little paranoid about contamination witch maybe a valid concern due to farmers not using proper handling techniques, but I have never got sick. Also find a good online supplier, you can buy in bulk it is much cheaper then a local head shop if that is where you end up shopping. Less is more it is very much like Trams in that way.
 

nobknee

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Nov 19, 2019
Posts
169
I take kratom occasionally, and I'm a big supporter of it remaining legal. However, it's not the only "all natural" painkiller. Morphine and codeine are both extracts of the opium poppy, not synthetics.

"All natural" is mostly just a marketing slogan that plays on chemophobia and the appeal to nature fallacy. There's nothing inherently inferior about a chemical synthesized in a lab, and nothing inherently healthy about a chemical that appears in nature.

The downside with all herbal medicines (at least the ones that aren't just straight-up nonsense) is there's no way to determine the dosage of the active ingredient. Two equal measurements of ground up kratom leaf don't have equal dosages of mitragynine, which is the painkilling chemical in the plant. Plant matter also degrades more quickly and can incubate microbes.
 

Gullible

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May 15, 2011
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@nobknee, you have some good points but may I point out the other side of the ledger? Natural herbal remedies have been used and studied for thousands of years. Compare that to the usual fda process which might span a few years. Seems like if the mice don't all die and the right politician's hands get greased, it gets approved. Then later the horror stories come out like with thalidomide and many other things.

Thousands of years of use mean long term effects have been seen and any really nasty things are known. Look at chinese medicine for example. I will grant you there is a lot of hucksterism going on, but that is on the hucksters making false claims to make more money, not the fault of the herbs. Also there are manufacturers who sell bad quality products so you have to check around.

So now we have the situation where an fda approved sweetener with toxic side effects known as aspartame is allowed on the market while stevia was banned in products on store shelves for decades until finally being allowed. We have fda drugs with known terrible side effects while herbs which may do the job without sides are ignored. You can't make a fortune giving prescriptions on something that can be bought at a health food store so doctors recommend drugs.

You want examples? There are lots of them, glucosamine and chondroitin work very well for joint pain but I have yet to meet a doctor who mentions them if I say I have arthritis. If you mention them they will admit they have heard of it but no money in it so... Certainly no money for big pharma. Lots of other things, I could go on and on.
 

nobknee

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Nov 19, 2019
Posts
169
@nobknee, you have some good points but may I point out the other side of the ledger? Natural herbal remedies have been used and studied for thousands of years.

I'm not saying herbal remedies don't work. Some have active ingredients that produce certain effects and some are just bullshit. What I'm saying is there's nothing superior about an herbal remedy simply because it's "natural." That's the part that's just a marketing slogan. It has no real meaning. It plays on people's fear of "chemicals" to get you to think that "natural" is good and "chemicals" are bad, but all matter is made up of chemicals. Whether those chemicals are synthesized or appear in nature is not the aspect that's going to harm or help you. Arsenic is "natural." Hemlock is "natural."

And herbals have several major downsides. The dosage is uneven and unknowable. Plant matter degrades. Plant matter incubates fungus and microbes. In the case of kratom, the taste is foul. Mitragynine synthesized in a lab wouldn't be any less beneficial and, in many ways, would be more beneficial. We could control the dosage. It could be stored safely for much longer. It's not going to grow salmonella in the bottle.

In other cases, especially with taste, herbals might be a benefit. I prefer my caffeine from coffee because I like the taste of coffee. I don't want to take caffeine in a pill because I enjoy a steaming mug of joe. I guess, with kratom, some people enjoy the ritual and the taste. I'd just as soon forego it because I hate the taste and I'd like to be able to get a uniform dosage.

It's not that herbs don't have medical value. Just that they aren't superior simply because they're dried plant matter. In terms of regulation, they're inferior, because we don't regulate them, which allows manufacturers to make false medical claims about them and leaves us with no assurance that what it says on the bottle is what's actually in bottle. You could buy a bottle of kratom in the US only to find that it's nothing but ground-up lawn clippings with little or no kratom leaf at all. Or it may be so old that it's lost effectiveness or it's growing fungus (which has already happened, much to the chagrin of kratom advocates everywhere, myself included).

This is how we get into thinking that morphine isn't "natural" because it comes in pill form instead of poppy pod form, when it's the exact same chemical. In that case, the pill is much safer because the dose is standardized. But the poppy pod certainly contains the active ingredient. There's just no way of knowing how much you're getting, so one cup of poppy pod tea can contain a much higher dosage of morphine than a pill with a standardized dose. With kratom, that doesn't pose a lot of danger, but with morphine, it can.

Part of the appeal to nature fallacy is an "appeal to ancient" fallacy. Sure, humans were using herbs thousands of years ago, but science and medicine have progressed far beyond that. Thousands of years ago, we thought thunder meant Zeus was angry and we didn't know where the sun went at night. Not a ringing endorsement of how things were done before the advent of the scientific method. Thousands of years ago, a migraine might mean I got a hole drilled in my head or was murdered as demon-possessed. Now, I can get a small dose of lab-synthesized sumatriptan.

This is one reason anti-opioid hysteria pisses me off so much. It's utterly based on pseudoscience. We HAVE the ability to control people's pain, and to control it with remarkable safety. And instead, we're doing the equivalent of declaring pain patients "demon-possessed" and forcing them to suffer, even up to the point of death, when we know better! It's barbaric.
 

Azzamean

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Mar 26, 2011
Posts
469
I’ve used Kratom since 2014... so here is a quick brief of my experience.

Kratom does work - to an extent. I find it better than tramadol but way below hydrocodone. It’s good for some body pain and general mood. In fact, some strains I would label a mood booster first and pain reliever second.

It helps with withdrawal from opioids. No doubt about that. It isn’t a cure, because it isn’t the same thing and there are still missing pieces. But it is definitely “good enough” to get you through without wanting to tear off your clothes screaming into the woods. For that reason alone, anyone who is on pain medicine should keep a bag of Kratom in case withdrawals ever occur. It’s simply amazing and the best thing out there that isn’t an “opiod”.

It taste like shit. God is it bad. For 6 years I have washed and tossed. And for 6 years I have never gotten used to the taste. You can capsule it though, and that isn’t very difficult. I’m just lazy and don’t care enough to. You can also mix with foods but honesty that has always just gagged me more than sucking it up and washing it down with water. But to each their own.

It’s cheap. I don’t get the most expensive or the cheapest. I get from the same source since like 2016 and I think the average is around $75 a kilo or something. Bulk makes it cheaper and less more expensive. A kilo lasts me a long time but it all depends on the person...

Less is more. If you’re swallowing 100 grams of Kratom then idk how because more than 20-30 a day would have me beyond sick. I don’t know how you could really overdose on this stuff because you would be vomiting your guts up and dizzy way before that level but hey, humans are pretty good at overdosing on things so I’m not gonna defend that one too much.

It gives a rush of energy and a feeling of well being. It does and if wash and toss you get that feeling in less than 30 minutes. Pretty nifty right? Within 15 mins of waking up you can already be where a hydrocodone takes 30 - 45 mins. Only problem... that is the ceiling for me. You will not get “super messed up” on Kratom. For me that is a good thing but for people who are trying to escape their reality for a short time, this isn’t the stuff. It’s like trying to get super messed up on codiene if you are already opiod tolerant / dependent. Good luck! Maybe enjoy the 30 mins of sorta being like that? Idk I don’t really try to get that way anymore... grew out of me a lot.

It’s cheap and most cases it’s legal. Look, I can have a moderate habit for like $50 a month. Not sure how many meds I can get out there for that price for a month. It’s also mainly legal. In my state at least, so it’s really nice ordering it knowing there isn’t gonna be some scam or stupid crap. No worry of being arrested, etc. now there are some people out there who will scam, so like anything please research and get reputable people. Reddit has a huge amount of resources on that and reviews. Also lots of scammers too though, so just be smart. They do seize large international orders but never once has a kilo or two of mine been flagged and it’s always domestic.

To respond to some of the above... I’ve never had any internal issues, ever. I’ve taken too much and felt sick for an hour. But I’ve never had like anything feel physically wrong. Maybe if you did take 100 grams or whatever crazy amount there could be issues? Not sure why but I’d imagine them the same as eating 100 grams of maple leaves or grass every day.

Kratom obviously isn’t my first line of pain defense and it isn’t my “go to”. Although for many it is. Mine is severe enough to warrant strong opioids hence my plain clinic and injections (which... don’t do much). But I’ll always take a glass or two a day because it helps quite a bit, it’s cheap, and beneficial.

Just my thoughts...
 

Radley1

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Feb 18, 2011
Posts
65
I was shocked at just how effective it is. I was taking a G of pur fent HCL a weeks for years (equal to about 10 Gs of pure H a day) my supplier became unreliable and after 10 years of oxy/fent addiction I ran out for the first time believe it or not, and again a month later he took even longer to make good. I couldn't live that way, so I decided to give kratom a shot. Took my last fent before bed, took my first kratom in the AM. I didn't miss a beat. I have stopped and started once since (over 4 months) very little withdrawal the time I quit. It is more effective than opiods have been for back pain for years. I spent about 6-8 hours doing a spring cleaning (after a decade of opioid use it really needed it). I ran out of kratom, and went to a head shop, paid $20 for 60 Vs and I take 6 G doses in caps I load myself, so it lasted only 2 and a half days. My advice BUY IT BY THE KILO ONLINE UNDER $100 WITH SHIPPING AND THEY WILL BREAK IT DOWN TO 3-4 STRAINS AND SOME INCLUDE SAMPLES OF OTHERS.
 

Radley1

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Feb 18, 2011
Posts
65
@infamousryan, I have discovered the best way to research just about anything that you want to cut though the bullshit and get the real deal. Search kratom reddit for example, I use this method for almost everything like that, just add reddit to the search and you can be confident you are hearing from real people for reviews ECT.
 

Radley1

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Feb 18, 2011
Posts
65
I made a post here that went a little too far about specifics of my situation, I'm still learning how much I can say. I will leave it simple. It is incredibly effective for my pain more so than opiods because I used them so long. It was incredible for withdrawals, I got off so easy I couldn't believe it. I read that Borneo red was best for withdrawls, so that's what I used and have no other frame of reference. Bourne is actually not a strain but rather Bali red grafted with some other strain. I use red Bali for pain and mild sedation (like drinking 1 or 2 beers or taking 5mg valium. They say 5-10 grams is a large dose, I take 6 Gs of homemade caps. It is less than 20% of the cost online vs head shop. Size 00 caps are the way to go. I don't think I'm saying too much, if so I would appreciate a more specific explaination so I can be sure to abide by the rules/etiquette
 
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Radley1

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Feb 18, 2011
Posts
65
@infamousryan of course there will be anecdotal cases. Millions of people are using it. Using it is not a shield against say a heart attack. So surely some of the millions will have a heart attack (or organ failure) perhaps certain prescriptions cause bed interactions too. The other writer is correct, or at least largely correct when he says there is always (maybe not always) something else involved. They look at someone who did?an 8 ball of coke and took kratom as a kratom death. To find good information about propoganda, look into why the Ohio legislature made it illegal, it will serious blow your mind how ridiculous it is (for example junkies shooting it up, and dealers selling it on the street) the head of the the Harvard medical school read what they had to say and said "I'm calling B.S. on that" read further into what Harvard and NIH say. Obviously no conclusive evidence, and probobly never will be because like all natural supplements they can't be patented, who's going to spend the $800,000,000 to get FDA approval if they can't patient it? So we work with the best evidence we had, and go for harm reduction, especially when taking about a substitute for opiods
 
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