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Narcotics: It is Time For Me To Say Goodbye

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TheLastSnake

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Jul 31, 2020
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2
CBD is a good way to relax yourself while you taper down. It also works as a muscle relaxant. be aware, if you take it regular you will build a tolerance to it very quickly.

I have found that tapering with a weaker opiate mixed with small doses of kr8tom can help your brain adjust to the trama you need to go through to get clean.

Keep seeing your psychiatrist and try to work through the confusion and anxiety you will most likely encounter. It's a great help to have people willing to listen!

Execise is also a great way to release natural endorphins. It can help take the edge off and put you in a better mood. :)
 

File Error 500

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UPDATE:

I have been off opiods since August 2019. I went on Suboxone because I thought it would be a good substitute to treat my chronic headaches. I was wrong. It made me manic.

I cannot handle CBD.

I am on 10 Valium a month, which I take a quarter or a half at a time. I learned that my Chronic Headaches are not migraines but neck tension headaches. I get Botox, I walk daily and do pilates, ballet exercises and I eat healthy. I cannot drink because one drink goes straight to my neck and I immediately have a two day headache.

It is a daily battle with my chronic headaches, but it is much better know that I am off narcotics. I am clear headed. I don't preach anti-narcotics, I know pain and if you have to take narcotics I am with you.

Just thought I would catch anyone who reads my post as to where I am at. Life is a continuing learning path. I was headed downhill when I posted the original post because I knew that my brain had been taken over by the narcotics and I was beginning to act confused.
 

CalmSeeker

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@File Error 500
Glad you were able to accomplish that. Not sure how your headaches are fairing, but my wife has nearly the same situation you described in your original post. She's been wrecked by migraines/tension headaches for decades. She used to take sumitriptan 3 or 4 times a week, and sometimes it didn't even work. Anyway, she was recently prescribed Aimovig, or one of it competitors. A monthly shot, which she gives herself, and now she almost never gets a headache, like maybe one or two a month tops, instead of 4 or 5 a week. It's really changed her live in a big way. I think the one she's prescribed is called Ajovy. Perhaps you could speak to your doctor about obtaining one of these new prevention medications. You might need a referral to a neurologist first, depending on your insurance.
 

File Error 500

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@CalmSeeker I have an appointment with an expert in headaches in a month. My headaches have definitely decreased. I am considering Aimogv, except that my headaches are caused by my neck.

The problem with Triptans is you can only take a certain amount in month, they give rebound headaches and I had a stroke because of them. But I am happy that you Wife has found a way out of migraines.

@AgentOrange believe me, you are better off without them. I wish you luck. The first month is the hardest and you have done that.

@Stephen C. Bessette in the US it doesn't work that way, especially in New York. You will be given the prescription for opiates until you seem like you are addict, doesn't matter if your not an addict, the doctor will then refuse to see you. If you ask to be weaned off opiates they will say you have to go to detox.

In the US the only program that they have is a detox for three days with Methadone followed by your attendance in Narcotics Anoymous (NA). Or you have to go to a Suboxone Doctor.

The NA is mostly drug addicts who are looking to score or rip you off if you seem to have money. I would be ripped off because I am a white, middle class woman who dresses nice. The Suboxone doctors have to get a certification in suboxone. The Suboxone doctors are not caring, they are in it for money. They will charge you what they want and then say if you don't pay you will get cut off. They play games with drug addicts. They tried it with me, except I called them on it.

Thank you for your responses!
 

MRNUTTY

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@AgentOrange believe me, you are better off without them. I wish you luck. The first month is the hardest and you have done that.
Yeah, honestly when it's time it's time. I didn't feel a thing about it then, or now. All the terrors of doing without never arrived. I got to the point where -
- a taper worked like its supposed to; with no side effects of withdrawal.
- I was in more pain with it than without it.

No regrets. :0)
 

Santa's little helper

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One of my more intelligent doctors mentioned Botox for certain headache types.
Have not followed through yet, thought it worth a mention.
 

Alpha29

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Jul 31, 2020
Posts
110
Got to go slow as possible. I'm currently suffering from severe constipation from my pain medication due to covid causing me to be less physically active.

I think I might of posted in the wrong thread.


Magnesium is used all the time even via I.V. use for treating migraines
 

Synecdoche

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I have been a Chronic Migraine sufferer for years. I had first migraine when I was 10. I used to sing a song when I was young that would go:


Headache, headache go away
Don’t come back another day


That was 40 years ago. Now I see a Pain Management doctor (as I have posted about a million times on here). I get Botox every three months and 60 pills of Norco monthly.


Recently my H called my Pain Magement doctor and flew off the handle. He spoke to his assistant and basically said “your are prescribing an opiate, a medication that turns everyone into an addict”.


The next week I went in to his office for the Botox. We spoke about my H calling and he said this is common complaint he gets from the family of his patients. He gave me the number of a psychiatrist he uses to assess whether I am addicted or not. He gave me a prescription saying “to assess continuation of narcotic prescription”.


I saw the psychiatrist yesterday. He released me and gave me a prescription that said “to continue narcotic prescription”.


But this was after we had a long conversation. When I said that I was there because of my H it made sense to the Psychiatrist. He said normally I see the patients of the Pain DR who are prescribed the narcotic daily and I speak to them about trying other treatments such as CBD and medical marijuana. But yours isn’t that case. You don’t take yours daily. Yours is about getting therapy and discussing whether you should take the power back from your H and possibly divorce him and switch to Medical Marijuana and CBD.” You have my number because I can do both.


But my H is right. I was googling Chronic Pain and Addiction Psychiatry and came to conclusion the anybody who takes narcotics on a regular basis undergoes a brain transformation. They cannot function without narcotics. This is what happened to me. Without taking a dose I cannot process things in a logical fashion. I went to see the Psychiatrist and didn’t take narcotics that day and couldn’t even discuss WHY I was there. So to get off narcotics I have to wean myself off not just go cold turkey.


Which is why I am here. To get advice from people on how to wean myself off and to hopefully restore my brain to logic functions. Obviously I shall take this up with my Pain Doctor. But any advice would mean a lot to me.


PS: I have no opinion on anybody who takes narcotics requlary on here. I just know what they did to me.
Obviously this is a relatively old thread, but the OP brought up something important, and while I didn’t read the whole thread, I wanted to add my .02 cents (probably should be .05 cents with inflation). What I am going to mention is probably very well known, on this forum, but it certainly is worth repeating.

There are very important distinctions between addiction, and dependence. @File Error 500, you are the only person that can honestly assess where you are, and certainly medical professionals can help you figure this out. If you think you are, or were, facing addiction, you probably are. No shame in that, we are all human.

Dependance can be both mental, and physical, and the jury is out on which is worse. If you take PK’s for a legitimate reason, everyone becomes physically dependent, to some extent, but that is the nature of these medications. This usually happens after a while of continued use. If your dentist gives you 1 week of PK’s, after dental surgery, while it is possible, it is extremely unlikely that you would develop a severe physical dependence, but you can develop mental dependency after using the medication once, or a few times. Mental dependance would be your mind convincing you that you cannot life without the medication, but that is still not addiction. The physical side would be withdrawal, which is not that horrible with pain meds, unless you were taking very large amounts, well over the prescribed dosage. This is where the lines between dependance and addiction become very blurry. Are you addicted, if you use the medication to have a better quality of life? Not necessarily. If you are enjoying the euphoria, and keep chasing it, by increasing the dosage, that is addiction, and is abusing the medication, and not just using it for its original purpose. By no means am I directing this at you, @File Error 500, these are very broad strokes, and everyone is different. Addiction is abusing the medication, along with compulsive behavior, and not being able to stop, even if you really want to.

So the mechanics of how pain meds work, will cause physical dependence, but while stopping them is not fun, it is very doable, and generally speaking, not life threatening. The mental side is usually much worse, as along with the physical part, now your mind is telling you that you must continue to use them, probably along with the discomfort of stopping them, and the ability to stop them is becomes much harder than the simple decision to stop using them. You can certainly have dependency, and addiction simultaneously. But not everyone with a dependency is addicted. Again, if you sense that you have crossed over the line into addiction, that would almost certainly be correct. If you no longer have control, that is obviously a problem.

As far as other medications like Benzos, for either anxiety (anxiolytics) or insomnia (hypnotics), these meds can be used responsibly, but the physical dependency is much more precarious. Just stopping cold turkey, is dangerous, and requires a taper, for safety reasons. The mental part gets complicated with these, as your mind might be telling you that you can’t function without them, your mind might be right.

If you take anxiolytics, only when you need them, or take a steady dose, without abuse, that is not necessarily addiction, although there can be some compulsion. If you cannot use them without chasing euphoria, just like pain meds, that is abuse, and addiction.

There are people that can use either class of med responsibly, and occasionally cross the line, and look for the recreational aspects, and while clearly not using the medications as prescribed, or in the recommended dosage for the condition, are they addicted? That’s when things get very blurry, and there are many different opinions. No opinion is better than another.

The whole point of this is that addiction, and dependance, are two different things, but are very closely related, and if anyone can’t tell where they fall, but don’t like the status quo, there are numerous ways to get help, and figure out how to change their predicament.
 

Bluebell

That Snail Is Fast
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Apr 13, 2019
Posts
3,792
CBD is a good way to relax yourself while you taper down. It also works as a muscle relaxant. be aware, if you take it regular you will build a tolerance to it very quickly.

I have found that tapering with a weaker opiate mixed with small doses of kr8tom can help your brain adjust to the trama you need to go through to get clean.

Keep seeing your psychiatrist and try to work through the confusion and anxiety you will most likely encounter. It's a great help to have people willing to listen!

Execise is also a great way to release natural endorphins. It can help take the edge off and put you in a better mood. :)
Hemmm CBD has potential to build a tolerance because I'm a user of CBD Oils.


I have found a good one and I do not think that all of the CBD oils are equal.
 

calgal99

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Aug 22, 2015
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@Synecdoche and others, I really do want to step up here to say that not every person develops an "addiction" to addicting medications, even though it's not typical. I have a medical condition, very rare, that requires that I use hydrocodone on a regular basis, for some period of time. Once my symptoms are under control, sometimes in a week, sometimes after 3+ months, I can stop the med with no, literally zero, side effects. Stop, completely, no tapering, and no withdrawals. And then not need the med again for 3-12 months again. We, all people, are weird and can clearly have different reactions to medications. (And, not really relevant, but just a fyi, I am INTENSELY allergic to most, or maybe all, of the active ingredients in MMJ. I can't eat, tincture, smoke any of it. But I still believe MMJ is a likely good medicine for many/most people.)
 

jaders

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@Synecdoche and others, I really do want to step up here to say that not every person develops an "addiction" to addicting medications, even though it's not typical. I have a medical condition, very rare, that requires that I use hydrocodone on a regular basis, for some period of time. Once my symptoms are under control, sometimes in a week, sometimes after 3+ months, I can stop the med with no, literally zero, side effects. Stop, completely, no tapering, and no withdrawals. And then not need the med again for 3-12 months again. We, all people, are weird and can clearly have different reactions to medications. (And, not really relevant, but just a fyi, I am INTENSELY allergic to most, or maybe all, of the active ingredients in MMJ. I can't eat, tincture, smoke any of it. But I still believe MMJ is a likely good medicine for many/most people.)


You exemplify perfectly the incredible range of responses to ALL medications and especially those ones deemed “addictive.”

I think we actually need a completely new approach to substances and what really is actual “abuse.” I would venture to say that most folks in this board are in various stages of self control with any of the meds they take, and so don’t fall necessarily into the category of addiction in that it’s ALWAYS progressive and ALWAYS ruins lives.

Just as there are many many high functioning alcoholics, I think there are likely just as many high functioning addicts as well. The physical dependence to me isn’t a huge concern, as anyone who is NOT addicted can usually very easily withstand the short amount of time it takes to break free of that. In fact many folks are pretty eager to break that dependence if they no longer require the med for quality of life issues.

I just wish we based our ideas about drug use strictly on how much damage it’s causing in someone’s life. We think that if all meds were readily available, a large number of folks would be addicts and ruin their lives, and that people don’t do that now because they don’t have easy access. And maybe this is true, but maybe not. However since societal drug use keeps escalating no matter how much we try to prohibit access, i think we’re going to have to come up with a different approach.

It’s been mentioned here before, but this person’s Ted talk is so insightful to me. He really hits on what the issues are likely to be related to addiction, and I think unless we look much more deeply into that kind of thinking, all the prohibition in the world isn’t going to get control of this explosion of drug use.

I also think that there is still a brain factor related to addiction and without recognizing that, we will continue to see such dismal recovery rates. Again, I personally think that finding a medicine that “substitutes” in a more controlled manner to allow someone to stop a runaway escalation of drug use, is going to show much more promise than the goal of complete “sobriety.” The relapse rate for even ONE YEAR is pretty sad.

On a more philosophical note, it baffles me that so many folks think we should have all the guns we want (and I’m not saying we shouldn’t) but why don’t we apply that same logic to drug use? I could use the same argument that people who destroy their lives with drugs shouldn’t be the reason the rest of us can’t have access. Also folks say that even if we limit guns the criminals will still always get them. Likely true. But again - why don’t we use this same argument about drugs? Let the folks who can manage them have them, and deal more with the folks who’ve shown they cannot manage their use.

Anyway - just my thoughts. 🤔

Here’s the ted talk for anyone interested who hasn’t already seen it.

 

Alpha29

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Posts
110
@Synecdoche and others, I really do want to step up here to say that not every person develops an "addiction" to addicting medications, even though it's not typical. I have a medical condition, very rare, that requires that I use hydrocodone on a regular basis, for some period of time. Once my symptoms are under control, sometimes in a week, sometimes after 3+ months, I can stop the med with no, literally zero, side effects. Stop, completely, no tapering, and no withdrawals. And then not need the med again for 3-12 months again. We, all people, are weird and can clearly have different reactions to medications. (And, not really relevant, but just a fyi, I am INTENSELY allergic to most, or maybe all, of the active ingredients in MMJ. I can't eat, tincture, smoke any of it. But I still believe MMJ is a likely good medicine for many/most people.)

This is indeed seems to be a true thing I've read enough anecdotes of people claiming this. Plus someone I knew in person told me himself he developed zero withdrawal from using high dose oxycodone daily long-term while a different person using the same dose hanging out together used it with went on methadone due to horrible withdrawal.
 

GreenThumb

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Posts
2,359
@Synecdoche and others, I really do want to step up here to say that not every person develops an "addiction" to addicting medications, even though it's not typical. I have a medical condition, very rare, that requires that I use hydrocodone on a regular basis, for some period of time. Once my symptoms are under control, sometimes in a week, sometimes after 3+ months, I can stop the med with no, literally zero, side effects. Stop, completely, no tapering, and no withdrawals. And then not need the med again for 3-12 months again. We, all people, are weird and can clearly have different reactions to medications. (And, not really relevant, but just a fyi, I am INTENSELY allergic to most, or maybe all, of the active ingredients in MMJ. I can't eat, tincture, smoke any of it. But I still believe MMJ is a likely good medicine for many/most people.)

This is indeed seems to be a true thing I've read enough anecdotes of people claiming this. Plus someone I knew in person told me himself he developed zero withdrawal from using high dose oxycodone daily long-term while a different person using the same dose hanging out together used it with went on methadone due to horrible withdrawal.

There's a phenomena known to old time opiophiles called the "get out of jail free" card. Some long terms addicts have experienced temporary periods where they can come off opiods completely, with no withdrawal or ill effects. It's a very strange thing and completely contrary to the current theory of addiction, but it is real and I've known a few people that experienced it. All it proves is that addiction is very complex and not well understood by the so-called addiction specialists. Apparently, Ibogaine can do the same thing, it gives you a window of weeks or months, depending on the intensity of the treatment) where you can get free from opioids, if you can tolerate the trip (which is horrible, by all accounts).

On the drug policy topic, the only sane drug policy would be one that regulates the use of drugs, without criminalizing their use. Extending the alcohol laws to cover drugs would be a rational first step. We'd still have to break the Big Pharma monopoly over drugs, that could be handled by the state removing quotas on drug production and allowing demand to dictate the supply. It would be gratifying to see these greedy suboxone pushers (yeah, you, Kolodny) lose their revenue stream in the wake of sensible drug policy reforms.
 

jaders

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Posts
4,153
@Synecdoche and others, I really do want to step up here to say that not every person develops an "addiction" to addicting medications, even though it's not typical. I have a medical condition, very rare, that requires that I use hydrocodone on a regular basis, for some period of time. Once my symptoms are under control, sometimes in a week, sometimes after 3+ months, I can stop the med with no, literally zero, side effects. Stop, completely, no tapering, and no withdrawals. And then not need the med again for 3-12 months again. We, all people, are weird and can clearly have different reactions to medications. (And, not really relevant, but just a fyi, I am INTENSELY allergic to most, or maybe all, of the active ingredients in MMJ. I can't eat, tincture, smoke any of it. But I still believe MMJ is a likely good medicine for many/most people.)

This is indeed seems to be a true thing I've read enough anecdotes of people claiming this. Plus someone I knew in person told me himself he developed zero withdrawal from using high dose oxycodone daily long-term while a different person using the same dose hanging out together used it with went on methadone due to horrible withdrawal.

There's a phenomena known to old time opiophiles called the "get out of jail free" card. Some long terms addicts have experienced temporary periods where they can come off opiods completely, with no withdrawal or ill effects. It's a very strange thing and completely contrary to the current theory of addiction, but it is real and I've known a few people that experienced it. All it proves is that addiction is very complex and not well understood by the so-called addiction specialists. Apparently, Ibogaine can do the same thing, it gives you a window of weeks or months, depending on the intensity of the treatment) where you can get free from opioids, if you can tolerate the trip (which is horrible, by all accounts).

On the drug policy topic, the only sane drug policy would be one that regulates the use of drugs, without criminalizing their use. Extending the alcohol laws to cover drugs would be a rational first step. We'd still have to break the Big Pharma monopoly over drugs, that could be handled by the state removing quotas on drug production and allowing demand to dictate the supply. It would be gratifying to see these greedy suboxone pushers (yeah, you, Kolodny) lose their revenue stream in the wake of sensible drug policy reforms.

I too had a friend who was on methadone and could stop it at will for intervals. I had a hard time believing him, tbh, but he really had no reason to lie about it. And I also have another friend who takes daily doses of hydrocodone and has for years, but who also can stop with no withdrawal. It’s very strange…
 

Synecdoche

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My overarching point was, the OP, albeit a long time ago, thought they were facing addiction. There is a difference between addiction, and dependence, and the two types of dependence. Obviously, everyone is different, and the different terms are frequently used interchangeably, and inaccurately, most notably by politicians with an agenda. There is absolutely no conventional wisdom with this topic, as well, exactly because everyone is different. Viva La Difference!

When I was a teenager, it was in vogue to bash MJ, because of the “conventional wisdom“ that it was a gateway drug. It actually was, but not what they meant by it. Talk about reverse psychology! We knew that the speeches about how evil it was, and telling us that even trying it would lead to you laying in the gutter, strung out on H, were total crap. So the lectures definitely emboldened my contemporaries to try things they might not have, simply because we knew we were being lied to. Probably a third of my high school went to class stoned, and there were places kids met up to meet before first period, just to toke up. Of course it most certainly can be a gateway, because once you get involved with that culture, there are usually plenty of other things to try.

I went for decades, being able to start, and stop, pretty much anything. At the same time, I had a friend that snorted away a Corvette, in a weekend binge, and another friend that inherited a lucrative business from his father, and smoked, and snorted it away in a few weeks.

They used to tell us that MJ had no physical dependence, but an extremely high mental dependence. In my analytical mind, I did see people become mentally dependent on MJ, but usually there were other factors, like abusive parents, etc., and they needed an escape from reality. Does that fit any textbook definition? Maybe yes, maybe not.

I am certainly preaching to the choir with this, but the majority of people on this forum are here, because nobody gives a crap if we have a better quality of life, and have used these meds responsibly for years. The “adults“ have decided that Tylenol and Advil are all anyone ever needs, even post surgery, because just like in high school, that one hydrocodone, or oxycodone, will cause us to turn into zombie drug addicts. Of course there is not a chance that any of our legislators would suffer for one second, if they had a tooth pulled. I’m getting off my soapbox now.
 
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Alpha29

Senior member
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Jul 31, 2020
Posts
110
@jaders It is a weird how people can don't get physically dependent. I wish there was more research into why that is for those specific people but these days they only spend money to research something if it will make them money.

@Synecdoche People who don't recognize the difference between a physical dependence and a psychological dependence is a pet peeve for me.
 
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