Vaccine or No?

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UncleHorace

Senior member
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Posts
81
I think having a disease from which you recover provides better immunity than a vaccine, but I’m not 100% sure about that. I’ve had Covid so the vaccine may be useless to me unless it provides immunity to multiple strains for which I am not immune. In that case I’d get it. I have no problem being a guinea pig for science. I’ve used myself as a guinea pig for much worse things without a second thought 😝.
I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating: acquired immunity from contracting Covid-19 has not been established. This could be due to a lack of viable “memory cells” in certain people, or any number of reasons, which allow them to get reinfected. Covid also mutates rapidly. If we are to have a vaccine, it’s going to look something like the seasonal flu shot. The difference is that, practically speaking, there are a set number of strains of influenza. Each year, the CDC and WHO predicts the three or four strains that will be most transmissible and virulent, then produce and distribute vaccines accordingly.
On the other hand, we don’t know enough about the covid-19 virus, except that it mutates very quickly. One possibility is it will continue to mutate into hundreds of sister candidates, but only the fittest will survive. Once we know how the virus behaves in the longer term, we (The CDC; WHO, FDA) is be able to effectively inoculate the public. This could take a decade to get right.
 

UncleHorace

Senior member
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Posts
81
It will be interesting to see how available the vaccine becomes. I personally wouldn’t trust something that has been tested thoroughly. Who knows what long term effects there could be. However, if it’s composed of drugs that are commonly used I would definitely consider it, since we probably do have data on that. Just because the vaccine is new doesn’t mean it’s unsafe. It really depends on what it contains.
Not to say be a buzzkill, but this virus hasn’t been around long enough for the CDC to have ANY data on long term effects after a full recovery.
We can’t really break a vaccine into well-known compounds that can be googled for safety, since a vaccine isn’t meant to be a combination of drugs.
However, we have the next best thing to that, which is that the most promising candidates are an integrate a section of the viral mRNA (this is the machine that moves along your DNA and transcribes the DNA instructions into the protein it codes for.
The virus tears through tissue with the spikes along its capsid. This spiky shell is a protein and it’s blue prints are in blue the DNA. rWhat the mRNA vaccine will do, hopefully, is use altered mRNA to code for a capsid that’s completely benign. Instead of a spiky shell, it’s smooth and weak.
This is just one of many potential ways mRNA vaccine would work.
As for safety, this method provides your immune system with the tools to essentially have the virus give itself a vasectomy by producing a a viral load that is completely Harmless.
 

Rockieroads

Lapsed Senior Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2011
Posts
228
A friend of mine got sick. She goes to the hospital and she said It's Covid. I ask her how do you know it's not just the Flu? She said I don't. So if Covid 19 is like the seasonal flu, I think certain states are raising the numbers of Covid outbreaks just because someone comes in with a cough and fever. They get more federal funding. I will wait on the vaccine but will take the flu shot as that one has been around for decades.
 

jaders

Eminent member
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Posts
1,933
A friend of mine got sick. She goes to the hospital and she said It's Covid. I ask her how do you know it's not just the Flu? She said I don't. So if Covid 19 is like the seasonal flu, I think certain states are raising the numbers of Covid outbreaks just because someone comes in with a cough and fever. They get more federal funding. I will wait on the vaccine but will take the flu shot as that one has been around for decades.
If she went to the hospital sick, they should’ve tested her for covid? How would they not? And this idea that they get more federal funding so they’re inflating the numbers - there is just no evidence for that. Talk to someone who actually is WORKING with COVID patients. Most hospitals are getting close to capacity these last few days...
 

Gullible

Exalted member
Joined
May 15, 2011
Posts
2,591
@pythagorean, posting a site which claims another site is biased hardly proves anything. Do you like npr better? Ok now tell me how they are right wing lol

"Sixteen African nations are battling outbreaks of what's called "vaccine-derived polio." This is a form of polio that stems from the oral polio vaccine"


Bill gates with his "generosity" giving out free vaccines is actually testing them on unsuspecting populations. If someone dies or is paralyzed by the vaccine, the legal system makes it hard for them to sue.

I'll let the others be the guinea pigs and I'll sit back and watch.
 

slickwillie

Lapsed Senior Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2012
Posts
191
This vaccine is brought to you by those fine folks that give us an annual flu vaccine ...that BTW has seldom been effective for the flu vaccines that are there for each year respectively.

I think I will pass. After all, we don't have a vaccine for the Spanish flu and it finally died out on its own (herd immunity)
 

Frank Leigh

Honorable member
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Posts
212
Yes, I'll get one. I don't see any way around it. It's probably the only way to get rid of this virus and I want it gone so things can get back to normal.
Me too. There has to be some way of getting back to some sort of normality; the response to the virus is killing people and their livelihoods. Its impossible to know the effect this will have on our lives and the lives of our kids. I'm rolling up my sleeve already.
 

rainey51

Distinguished member
Joined
May 24, 2011
Posts
812
Nope, not me ! It's my body and I don't trust any of these vaccinations or the vaccine pushers that make big money from them and could give a crap about humans. Bill Gates wants to get rid of a large percentage of us "useless eaters", his words, not mine. So why in the world would I even consider getting injected with something he promotes? No, thanks!
 

UncleHorace

Senior member
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Posts
81
Yes, I'll get one. I don't see any way around it. It's probably the only way to get rid of this virus and I want it gone so things can get back to normal.
Me too. There has to be some way of getting back to some sort of normality; the response to the virus is killing people and their livelihoods. Its impossible to know the effect this will have on our lives and the lives of our kids. I'm rolling up my sleeve already.
In my opinion, the response to the virus, in many ways, caused more harm than the virus itself - from protracted lockdowns and business closures, to social effects of school closures, to foreclosures on newly unemployed families, and the exacerbation of racial and political divisions - not to mention the hundreds of thousands, potentially millions who will have died from the virus. (I don’t mean to get political, these are just broad realities caused by the ineptitude and ego of the White House and Senate.)
But that’s something we (yes, all of us, together) will have to look back on in time.
 

UncleHorace

Senior member
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Posts
81
Nope, not me ! It's my body and I don't trust any of these vaccinations or the vaccine pushers that make big money from them and could give a crap about humans. Bill Gates wants to get rid of a large percentage of us "useless eaters", his words, not mine. So why in the world would I even consider getting injected with something he promotes? No, thanks!
The fact is that Bill Gates’ biggest financial problem is how to give away his $167 Billion in net worth. He certainly has zero interest in some medical business venture. Bill Gates gave to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation $36 Billion, which has grown with outside contributions to about $50 Billion, of which the largest part goes to fighting infectious diseases. So, you are right in thinking he has an interest in the effort of global disease control, but not in getting anything from it; rather, his interest is in giving money to it.
Bill Gates doesn’t personally profit from what his Foundation invests in. He doesn’t even run the thing. It’s CEO, Mark Suzman, orchestrated an enormous international agreement with, among others, AstraZeneca, Bayer, bioMérieux, Boehringer Ingelheim, Bristol Myers Squibb, Eisai, Eli Lilly, Gilead, GSK, Johnson & Johnson, Merck & Co., Merck KGaA, Novartis, Pfizer, Roche and Sanofi, to maximize worldwide production and distribution capability.
To answer your question, you should consider getting vaccinated for the hope that one day this pandemic will be controlled; for the sake of the millions who have died already; for the health of our children; for our damn mental stability. It’ll only work if everyone does their part.
 

Azzamean

Honorable member
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Posts
494
I got COVID back in March. They do two tests (at least for me). One is up your nose that is the RAPIP test, the other they did the back of my throat and that usually takes a couple days. It really fucking sucked. I was in the hospital for a week and not only did I have Covid but I was going through wd's. While they knew I was prescribed pain medicine, they were only giving me the amount that I am prescribed and not what I actually take.

Finally told the doctor I take a lot higher doses and while they didn't give me what I wanted, they did increase my doses. I was seriously contemplating on leaving and that sounds nuts, doesn't it?

As for the vaccine? Since that is the topic... Sure, I would take the vaccine. In a few years. I'm all for vaccines. I am not for being a guinea pig. But hey, if you guys are comfortable with being one of the first people then I say go for it! Just know there are risks and that there are possible side effects that they don't even know of. That is why its usually a few years of trials before a medication is given the go ahead... ya know so after like 18 months of taking a drug a tentacle doesn't sprout out of your ass or something.

Anyway, that is just me personally. All for that stuff after they have been tested, but don't expect me to raise my hand first.
 

rainey51

Distinguished member
Joined
May 24, 2011
Posts
812
Nope, not me ! It's my body and I don't trust any of these vaccinations or the vaccine pushers that make big money from them and could give a crap about humans. Bill Gates wants to get rid of a large percentage of us "useless eaters", his words, not mine. So why in the world would I even consider getting injected with something he promotes? No, thanks!
The fact is that Bill Gates’ biggest financial problem is how to give away his $167 Billion in net worth. He certainly has zero interest in some medical business venture. Bill Gates gave to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation $36 Billion, which has grown with outside contributions to about $50 Billion, of which the largest part goes to fighting infectious diseases. So, you are right in thinking he has an interest in the effort of global disease control, but not in getting anything from it; rather, his interest is in giving money to it.
Bill Gates doesn’t personally profit from what his Foundation invests in. He doesn’t even run the thing. It’s CEO, Mark Suzman, orchestrated an enormous international agreement with, among others, AstraZeneca, Bayer, bioMérieux, Boehringer Ingelheim, Bristol Myers Squibb, Eisai, Eli Lilly, Gilead, GSK, Johnson & Johnson, Merck & Co., Merck KGaA, Novartis, Pfizer, Roche and Sanofi, to maximize worldwide production and distribution capability.
To answer your question, you should consider getting vaccinated for the hope that one day this pandemic will be controlled; for the sake of the millions who have died already; for the health of our children; for our damn mental stability. It’ll only work if everyone does their part.
Ummm....still a No thanks for me but just think you'll be nice and safe from people like me when you get your vaccine. The health of our children, right....like all the cases of autism and sudden infant death syndrome that magically appeared along with the numerous vaccines they are given. I'm not responsible for your mental stability as you are not responsible for mine. I won't entertain arguing with your brainwashed mentality and worthless copied pages of Bill Gates worship.
 

UncleHorace

Senior member
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Posts
81
Nope, not me ! It's my body and I don't trust any of these vaccinations or the vaccine pushers that make big money from them and could give a crap about humans. Bill Gates wants to get rid of a large percentage of us "useless eaters", his words, not mine. So why in the world would I even consider getting injected with something he promotes? No, thanks!
The fact is that Bill Gates’ biggest financial problem is how to give away his $167 Billion in net worth. He certainly has zero interest in some medical business venture. Bill Gates gave to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation $36 Billion, which has grown with outside contributions to about $50 Billion, of which the largest part goes to fighting infectious diseases. So, you are right in thinking he has an interest in the effort of global disease control, but not in getting anything from it; rather, his interest is in giving money to it.
Bill Gates doesn’t personally profit from what his Foundation invests in. He doesn’t even run the thing. It’s CEO, Mark Suzman, orchestrated an enormous international agreement with, among others, AstraZeneca, Bayer, bioMérieux, Boehringer Ingelheim, Bristol Myers Squibb, Eisai, Eli Lilly, Gilead, GSK, Johnson & Johnson, Merck & Co., Merck KGaA, Novartis, Pfizer, Roche and Sanofi, to maximize worldwide production and distribution capability.
To answer your question, you should consider getting vaccinated for the hope that one day this pandemic will be controlled; for the sake of the millions who have died already; for the health of our children; for our damn mental stability. It’ll only work if everyone does their part.
Ummm....still a No thanks for me but just think you'll be nice and safe from people like me when you get your vaccine. The health of our children, right....like all the cases of autism and sudden infant death syndrome that magically appeared along with the numerous vaccines they are given. I'm not responsible for your mental stability as you are not responsible for mine. I won't entertain arguing with your brainwashed mentality and worthless copied pages of Bill Gates worship.
That’s fair: I may have been brainwashed by science and facts, and I’m scientifically literate enough to know there are zero studies linking childhood vaccines or Mercury-derived preservatives to the onset of Autism. Actually, it’s the opposite. In response to Andrew Wakefield’s discredited study and the growing number of anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists, the NIH, CDC, and various private institutions have put out extensive studies that show no statistically significant correlation, let alone prove a causal relationship between vaccines and autism.
Other than that, I agree with you that it’d be useless for us to continue this argument when we don’t agree on baseline facts (otherwise known as reality).
 

Zenak

Senior member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Posts
111
The most scientific thing to note regarding the COVID vaccine is the enormous effective rate. The Flu vaccine typically varies between 40-60% effective, depending on the season.

The covid vaccines so far getting publicity are entirely different than any other vaccine on the market, as they are mRNA based. This is one of the main reasons that the numbers of 90% or higher are being thrown around. Research backs this up, however this use and scale has no precedence...

I'll be curious to see how the anti vaxxers spin this nuance - if the trials proceed and these vaccines are approved it will be world changing.
 

jaders

Eminent member
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Posts
1,933
The most scientific thing to note regarding the COVID vaccine is the enormous effective rate. The Flu vaccine typically varies between 40-60% effective, depending on the season.

The covid vaccines so far getting publicity are entirely different than any other vaccine on the market, as they are mRNA based. This is one of the main reasons that the numbers of 90% or higher are being thrown around. Research backs this up, however this use and scale has no precedence...

I'll be curious to see how the anti vaxxers spin this nuance - if the trials proceed and these vaccines are approved it will be world changing.
Well. Look at it this way. The folks who get it will be protected and the ones who won’t are obviously more likely to get the virus, thus culling a number of them - funny how that “survival is the fittest” thing actually works... ;)
 

Maskell

Honorable member
Joined
Aug 6, 2011
Posts
427
https://coronanews123.wordpress.com...ns-dead-of-covid-vaccine-not-unsubstantiated/

Dr. Judy Mikovits’ Claims of 50 Million Americans Dead of COVID Vaccine "Not Unsubstantiated"

In a viral video, scientist-virologist Judy Mikovits says that a coronavirus vaccine could kill 50 million Americans, which will then be blamed on new strains of COVID. This will be due to viral interference which even Dr. Anthony Fauci has warned of as problematic in vaccines.

Fauci said: "I must warn that there is a possibility of negative consequences where certain vaccines can actually enhance the negative effect of the infection"...

The UK Independent reports: "COVID-19, like other coronaviruses, is expected to mutate at least every season, raising serious questions about claims that any vaccine will work. A successful vaccine has never been developed for any of the many strains of coronaviruses, due to the nature of the virus itself; and vaccinated people can have a higher chance of serious illness and death when later exposed to another strain of the virus, a phenomenon known as ‘virus interference.’ An earlier SARS vaccine never made it to market because the laboratory animals it was tested on contracted more serious symptoms on re-infection, and most of them died".

In other words, with coronavirus vaccines, deaths may not happen immediately, but in a following season upon exposure to a wild virus. Dr. Mikovits says health authorities are well aware of this...
 

lbz

Honorable member
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Posts
204
I will follow what the medical community does. They know more than I do about vaccines and virology because I didn't go to school for those things. I'll admit I'm concerned about the fast-track.
 
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